MEXICO 

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A  Stenographic  Report  of  the 
Interviews  Obtained  by  the 
Alva  W.  Taylor  Good  Will 
Mission  in  the  City  of  Mexico 
from  July  28  to  August  9, 1926 


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Preface 


UNDER  THE  LEADERSHIP  of  Dr.  Alva  W.  Taylor,  secretary  of  the  Board 
of  Social  Welfare  of  the  Disciples  of  Christ,  Indianapolis,  Ind.,  a  party 
of  thirty-two  persons  from  the  United  States  arrived  in  the  City  of  Mexico 
July  28,  1926,  and  remained  until  August  10,  studying  the  problems  of 
Mexico  from  every  angle  with  the  hope  of  promoting  good  will  between  the 
two  great  republic  divided  by  the  Rio  Grande.  The  party  was  organized  by 
Dr.  Taylor  in  the  winter  and  spring  of  1926  without  any  thought  of  timing 
the  visit  to  coincide  with  the  religious  crisis  which  reached  a  high  point  while 
the  group  was  in  the  Mexican  capital.  Each  member  of  the  group  paid  his 
own  expenses.  All  members  of  the  group  were  Protestants;  they  came  from 
fifteen  states  and  various  professions.  Most  of  them  were  actively  identified 
with  Protestant  religious  enterprises,  but  each  one  went  as  an  individual  seek¬ 
ing  facts  and  not  as  the  official  representative  of  any  organization. 

The  members  of  the  party  were:  Dr.  Alva  W.  Taylor,  Indianapolis;  Miss 
Ruth  Taylor,  Indianapolis;  Dr.  Sidney  L.  Gulick,  secretary  of  the  commission 
an  international  justice  and  good  will  of  the  Federal  Council  of  Churches  of 
Christ  in  America,  New  York  City;  Dr.  Miles  H.  Krumbine,  pastor  of  the 
Parkside  Lutheran  church,  Buffalo,  and  Mrs.  Krumbine;  Dr.  Howard  E.  Jensen, 
professor  of  sociology  in  Butler  University,  Indianapolis,  and  Mrs.  Jensen; 
Dr.  Joseph  C.  Todd,  dean  of  the  School  of  Religion,  Indiana  University, 
Bloomington,  and  Mrs.  Todd;  Tolbert  F.  Reavis,  professor  in  the  School  of 
Religion,  Indiana  University,  Bloomington;  Dr.  J.  W.  Putnam,  dean  of  Butler 
University,  Indianapolis;  F.  F.  Grim,  dean  of  Atlantic  Christian  College, 
Wilson,  N.  C.;  P.  E.  Baker,  chaplain  of  Fisk  University,  Nashville,  Tenn. ;  Mrs. 
Mary  W.  Roe,  missionary  to  the  American  Indians,  Colony,  Okla. ;  H.  E.  Beck- 
ler,  associate  secretary  of  the  Ohio  Council  of  Churches,  Madison,  O.;  Dr. 
Robert  S.  Holmes,  director  of  forums,  and  Mrs.  Holmes,  Daytona  Beach,  Fla. ; 
Oliver  C.  Weist,  pastor  of  First  Community  Church,  Columbus,  O.;  John  G. 
Fleck,  pastor  of  a  Lutheran  church,  Baltimore,  Md. ;  Charles  Sebold,  pastor  of 
the  Congregational  church.  Vernal,  Utah,  and  Mrs.  Sebold;  D.  Finley  Wood, 
pastor  of  the  Methodist  Episcopal  church,  Zanesville,  0. ;  Hugh  Darsie,  pastor 
of  the  church  of  the  Disciples  of  Christ,  Steubenville,  O.;  Howard  Y.  Williams, 
pastor  of  the  People’s  Church,  St.  Paul,  Minn. ;  W.  O.  Burgin,  attorney,  and 
Mrs.  Burgin,  Lexington,  N.  C. ;  Lacy  Simms,  pastor  of  the  Spanish  mission 
church  of  the  Presbyterian  Church  in  the  U.  S.  A.,  Chicago;  Laurence  D. 
Kohlmeyer,  president  of  the  Kolograph  Company,  manufacturer  of  portable 
moving  picture  machines,  Indianapolis;  Miss  Anna  M.  Klingenhagen,  dean  of 
women,  Oberlin  College,  Oberlin,  O.;  Miss  Osee  M.  Dill,  physician,  Indianapolis; 
Dr.  Francis  M.  Williams,  physician,  and  mayor  of  Richmond,  Ind.;  Joseph 
Myers,  Jr.,  managing  editor  of  The  Christian,  a  journal  of  religion,  Kansas 
City,  Mo. 

Miss  Catherine  Duval  Smith,  director  of  \.  W.  C.  A.  work  in  the  republic 
of  Mexico  for  five  years,  and  Dr.  Andres  Osuna,  a  member  of  the  Carranza 
cabinet  and  a  noted  Mexican  educator,  were  the  official  guides,  interpreters 
and  friends  of  the  group  in  its  course  of  study.  Daniel  Gish,  a  citizen  of  the 
United  States,  instructor  in  aviation  for  the  Mexican  army  and  a  close  friend 
of  Senor  Luis  Morones,  secretary  of  commerce  and  labor,  aided  in  arranging 
interviews  with  Mexican  governmental  officials. 


Following  its  two  weeks’  study,  the  group  approved  and  released  to  news¬ 
papers  the  following  statement  of  findings: 

“This  group  of  thirty-two  students  from  the  United  States  has  spent  two 
weeks  in  an  intensive  study  of  the  Mexican  situation,  covering  the  tense  days 
,  around  August  1.  We  have  interviewed  representatives  of  labor,  of  education, 
of  both  Mexican  and  foreign  business,  of  the  Roman  Catholic  hierarchy,  of 
the  Protestant  churches,  and  of  the  government.  All  have  received  us  with 
courtesy  and  talked  to  us  freely. 

“We  have  seen  no  riots  nor  any  signs  of  violence.  We  have  searched  for 
such  in  vain  and  could  discover  no  disturbances  beyond  a  few  of  minor  type. 
We  are  assured  by  representatives  of  all  groups,  even  those  opposed  to  the 
government,  that  the  Calles  government  is  strong,  is  in  full  command  of  the 
situation,  and  that  they  anticipate  no  serious  trouble. 

“We  believe  a  program  of  education  and  social  reform  is  necessary  to 
the  rehabilitation  of  Mexico.  Without  passing  judgment  on  details  or  on  the 
methods  used,  we  believe  the  Calles  administration  is  engaged  in  a  great 
program  of  social  reform,  and  that  all  who  are  truly  interested  in  the  welfare 
of  Mexico  will  cooperate  in  its  essential  undertakings. 

“We  believe  that  when  the  churches  in  Mexico  accept,  as  they  have  done 
in  the  United  States,  the  fundamental  democratic  principle  that  every  in¬ 
dividual,  irrespective  of  his  religion,  owes  civic  loyalty  to  the  state  rather  than 
to  the  church,  that  the  religious  question  will  be  settled  in  Mexico  and  that 
the  church  will  prosper  the  more  for  it.” 

The  following  pages  contain  the  report  by  a  public  stenographer  of  the 
principal  interviews  obtained  by  the  Taylor  seminar  group,  and  certain  addi¬ 
tional  matter  regarded  as  necessary  to  an  understanding  of  the  present  situa¬ 
tion  in  Mexico.  It  is  hoped  this  pamphlet  may  supplement  the  individual  ef¬ 
forts  of  the  members  of  the  group  in  promoting  friendly  relations  between 
Mexico  and  the  United  States. 


J.  M. 


The  Views  of  President  Calles 

As  THE  CLIMAX  of  its  study  tour,  the  Taylor  group  was  received  by 
President  Plutarco  Elias  Calles  at  Chapultepec  Castle,  the  home  of  the 
President,  Monday,  August  9,  at  12:30  P.  M.  The  President  dismissed  formali¬ 
ties  and  answered  questions  from  the  group  for  about  an  hour.  Dr.  Andres 
Osuna  was  the  interpreter.  Following  is  a  stenographic  report  of  the  inter¬ 
view: 

CALLES:  I  am  heartily  pleased  to  receive  this  representative  group  from 
the  United  States.  I  am  delighted  to  see  you  and  to  know  that  you  have 
come  to  investigate  conditions  in  Mexico,  and  to  get  first  hand  information 
so  that  you  may  be  able  to  go  back  and  inform  the  American  public  of  the 
real  conditions  and  about  the  reports  that  have  been  circulated  by  enemies  of 
Mexico  and  enemies  of  my  own  administration.  I  am  ready  to  enter  into  con¬ 
versation  with  you.  I  am  also  ready  to  answer  any  questions  you  may  have, 
or  do  my  best  to  answer  them,  regarding  conditions  of  this  country. 

QUESTION:  The  charge  is  made  constantly  that  the  administration  is 
anti-religious.  We  should  like  to  have  a  statement  from  the  President. 

CALLES:  The  government  on  religious  questions  has  no  given  tendency. 
To  the  Mexican  government  all  religions  are  equally  worthy  of  respect.  All 
religions  get  equal  protection  and  liberty.  The  opinion  of  the  officials  of  the 
government  is  that  all  religions  are  good  because  they  have  a  moral  tendency. 
The  difficulties  in  Mexico  have  been  provoked  by  Mexican  representatives  of 
the  Hierarchy  of  the  Roman  Catholic  church.  The  Catholic  clergy  is  an  intoler¬ 
ant  clergy.  They  think  all  ought  to  conform  to  their  dogmas  and  ought  not 
be  allowed  any  other  religion.  At  present  they  cannot  do  what  they  used  to 
do.  They  cannot  now  persecute  members  of  any  other  religion.  Of  course, 
the  government  of  the  Republic  had  to  suppress  the  outrages  of  the  Catholics. 
On  the  other  hand,  the  Catholic  clergy  has  always  been  trying  to  keep  from 
obeying  the  laws.  They  have  never  been  willing  to  obey  any  other  authority 
than  that  of  Rome.  In  that  way  they  have  been  trying  to  make  fun  of  the 
institutions  of  the  country.  What  better  ground,  logically,  could  the  govern¬ 
ment  have  had  on  which  to  take  extreme  and  drastic  measures  to  make  them 
obey  the  law.  The  Catholic  clergy  has  always  had  the  tendency,  not  only 
here  but  in  all  pa,rts  of  the  world — -but  its  action  is  more  visible  in  Latin 
America- — to  keep  -the  masses  in  the  most  absolute  ignorance;  it  has  only 
tried  to  make  fanatics  of  these  masses  without  ever  being  a  factor  in  the 
moral  and  intellectual  development  of  the  people.  The  Catholic  clergy 
throughout  our  history  has  had  the  tendency  to  absorb  the  economic  resources 
of  the  country.  During  the  period  of  Spanish  domination  and  down  to  our 
days  it  has  tried  to  absorb  all  our  wealth.  The  clergy  knows  that  in  con¬ 
trolling  the  economic  power  of  the  country  they  control  the  political  power 
also.  Their  efforts  have  always  been  towards  keeping  in  their  control  the 
political  power.  It  is  this  procedure  of  the  Roman  Catholic  clergy  that  has 
wrought  in  our  country  the  bloodiest  struggles;  the  War  of  Three  Years,  the 
War  of  Reform,  and  many  of  the  later  revolutionary  movements  in  Mexico  had 
their  origin  in  the  clergy’s  doings.  Liberal  ideas  have  triumphed  and  the 
economic  and  social  revolution  that  is  taking  place  in  Mexico  no  longer 
tolerates  the  intrusion  of  the  Catholic  clergy  in  matters  that  are  not  properly 
spiritual. 

QUESTION:  We  have  been  told  both  here  and  in  the  United  States 
that  in  some  cases  the  measures  applied  have  been  too  radical. 


—5— 


CALLES:  Point  me  out  a  concrete  example.  Have  you  any  to  tell  me? 

ANSWER:  None. 

CALLES:  The  Federal  Constitution  of  the  Republic,  that  is  our  basic 
law,  establishes  certain  principles  concerning  the  clergy,  but  nO'  penalties  had 
been  fixed  for  those  who  were  found  to  infringe  against  these  principles.  For 
example,  the  constitution  forbids  priests  or  ministers  of  any  religion  whatever 
to  avail  themselves  of  the  pulpit  to  deliver  sermons  or  addresses  of  a  seditious 
character,  but  no  penalty  had  been  established  by  law  with  which  to  punish  the 
trespass  until  very  recently  when  the  amendments  to  the  penal  law  were 
enacted.  Now  the  clergy  protests  against  this  law,  evincing  thereby  its 
intention  of  violating  it.  If,  at  this  moment,  there  were  no  regulations  impos¬ 
ing  penalties  for  robbery,  would  it  be  justifiable  to  protest  against  the  enact¬ 
ment  of  a  regulation  establishing  the  penalty  for  such  demeanor?  Thieves 
would  protest,  but  men  with  no  intention  of  dedicating  themselves  to  robbery 
would  not  do  so ;  that  is  to  say,  that  protest  would  come  only  from  law  breakers. 
The  Constitution  of  the  Republic  says  that  all  acts  of  public  worship  are 
prohibited  outside  church  edifices;  and  now  the  new  penal  law  imposes  a 
penalty  on  all  those  who  violate  this  regulation.  The  clergy  protest  against 
this.  Why?  Undoubtedly  because  it  has  the  intention  of  not  fulfilling  the 
law.  Mexico  has  been  forced  to  take  these  measures  because  of  the  experi¬ 
ence  it  has  had  during  centuries.  Pulpits  have  been  used  as  platforms  for 
seditious  propaganda  and  that  is  where  our  internal  wars  have  been  fostered; 
and  it  is  because  of  this  the  priests  have  been  forbidden  to  make  such  bad  use 
of  their  platforms.  Acts  of  public  worship  outside  of  the  church  have  been 
forbidden  because  they  are  means  which  the  priests  utilized  to  provoke  dis¬ 
orders  and  riots.  The  Government  of  the  Republic  is  obligated  to  have  the 
Constitution  respected  and  fulfilled.  There  cannot  be  any  social  class  exempt 
from  obedience  to  the  law. 

QUESTION:  In  case  the  priests  admitted  the  Government  was  in  the 
right  and  promised  to  comply  with  the  law,  would  the  measure  be  withdrawn? 

CALLES:  The  law  would  continue  in  force,  but  if  the  clergy  complied 
with  its  provisions  there  would  not  arise  any  difficulties  nor  would  there  be 
needed  any  application  of  the  penalties  established. 

QUESTION :  Some  of  us  are  ministers  of  religion.  In  our  country 

we  use  the  pulpit  to  discuss  political  matters  of  general  interest.  Could  the 
same  thing  be  done  in  this  country? 

CALLES:  In  Mexico  the  law  forbids  anything  in  addresses  or  sermons  of 
seditious,  political  character,  for  you  must  understand  that  in  these  Latin 
American  countries  where  the  clergy  is  not  in  power,  it  is  always  against  the 
government. 

QUESTION:  We  would  like  to  know  if  priests  can  perform  acts  per¬ 
taining  to  their  ministry  in  private  houses  according  to  the  law. 

CALLES:  The  Government  is  not  interested  in  questions  of  beliefs  or 
dogma.  Within  the  church  the  clergy  can  perform  whatever  acts  they  may 
desire  that  are  religious  and  spiritual  in  character,  and  within  private  houses 
they  can  also  baptize  and  administer  all  existing  sacraments,  and  any  sacra¬ 
ments  they  may  wish  to  invent. 

QUESTION:  In  the  United  States  ministers  of  religion  cannot  speak  in 
the  name  of  the  church  when  dealing  with  subjects  or  matters  that  are  not 
concerned  with  religion.  When  they  speak  of  such  matters  they  do  so  in 
their  own  name. 

CALLES:  Here  it  is  not  so.  In  Mexico  the  clergy,  in  order  to  attack  the 
faw,  do  so  in  the  name  of  their  religion. 


—6 


QUESTION:  We  have  been  informed  that  Protestant  ministers  are 

violating  the  law  as  much  as  the  Catholic  priests  and  that  the  Catholic  priests 
are  struggling  in  behalf  of  all  religions. 

CALLES:  That  is  not  exact.  It  is  a  lie.  The  Protestants  are  strictly 
complying  with  the  law. 

QUESTION:  In  case  there  should  come  as  viistors  to  Mexico  any  Protes¬ 
tant  ministers,  would  they  be  allowed  to  exercise  their  ministry  within  the 
churches? 

CALLES:  No.  I  will  explain  to  you  why.  Superficially  looked  at, 
this  appears  as  a  too  radical  measure,  but  we  have  been  forced  to  enact  a  law 
general  in  character.  Foreign  clergy,  especially  of  the  Roman  Catholic  persua¬ 
sion,  have  been  a  veritable  calamity  to  our  people.  Thousands  of  priests  have 
been  sent  to  us  from  Europe,  especially  of  Spanish  and  Italian  nationality; 
these  priests  have  been  the  scum  of  the  clergy — what  the  Europeans  them¬ 
selves  have  not  wanted  to  bear  with.  They  have  come  to  this  country  with  the 
purpose  only  of  exploiting  us;  they  have  come  to  make  fanatics  of  the  common 
people,  and  have  tried  by  every  possible  means  to  maintain  the  masses  in 
ignorance;  they  have  come  attempting  to  absorb  the  economic  power  of  the 
country,  to  take  from  the  nation  all  the  money  they  can,  which  they  carry  to 
Europe;  they  have  always  tried  to  interfere  with  the  internal  affairs  of  the 
country;  they  have  never  been  factors  of  cooperation  for  the  forward 
movement  of  the  people;  they  have  never  cooperated  for  the  moral  develop¬ 
ment  of  the  nation.  Confronted  by  this  invasion  of  contaminating  elements 
the  nation  has  found  it  necessary  to  take  preventive  measures.  The  law  has 
had  to  be  general  in  character,  hence  we  could  not  specify  that  certain  foreign 
ministers  could  exercise  their  ministry  in  Mexico. 

QUESTION:  Have  the  Protestant  ministers  expressed  to  you  that  they 
are  in  accord  with  the  Government’s  program?  Have  they  expressed  to  you 
their  willingness  to  comply  with  the  laws? 

CALLES:  Yes,  they  have  made  me  such  expressions,  not  only  here  but 
from  the  United  States  as  well.  I  have  received  from  them  copies  of  orders 
that  their  higher  officials  have  issued,  commanding  Protestant  ministers  to 
comply  with  the  Mexican  laws. 

QUESTION:  We  would  like  to  know  the  program  of  the  Mexican  govern¬ 
ment  for  social  development. 

CALLES:  With  much  pleasure.  I  am  very  glad  that  you  ask  me  con¬ 
cerning  this  matter.  The  Mexican  Government’s  program  is  very  intricate 
and  very  difficult  to  carry  out,  but  we  are  working  towards  its  realization  with 
great  faith — in  this  sense  I  am  fanatical.  Its  most  difficult  point  is  that  which 
refers  to  the  popular  classes,  meaning  by  this  the  workers  both  of  the  city 
and  of  the  country,  especially  the  latter  who  are  chiefly  Indians.  The  peasant 
masses  of  the  country  have  been  since  the  colonial  epoch  until  a  short  time 
ago  under  conditions  of  slavery;  we  can  almost  say  they  did  not  own  the  air 
they  breathed.  Land  property  in  Mexico  was  held  by  the  Conquerors  and  this 
property  has  been  handed  down  among  them  from  generation  to  generation 
so  that  the  owners  of  the  land  have  been  only  a  few  privileged  mortals,  while 
the  millions  of  human  beings  that  live  in  the  fields  have  been  subjected  to  a 
condition  of  slavery.  These  poor  peasants  have  not  owned  the  land  on  which 
to  build  their  homes  nor  even  the  two  yards  in  which  to  be  buried.  The  land 
holders,  and  the  clergy  fits  in  here,  have  maintained  them  always  in  ignorance. 
Tte  clergy  has  always  sided  with  the  mighty  ones  of  the  earth  and  have  never 
been  friends  of  the  humble  ones  as  Jesus  commanded.  Wages  that  have  been 
paid  in  the  haciendas  to  the  tillers  of  the  land  have  been  so  miserable  that 
they  have  not  sufficient  to  satisfy  the  necessities  of  the  stomach.  The  pig  of 


— 


the  hacendado  (land  owner)  has  been  better  fed  than  the  peones  (farm  hand 
serfs)  who  work  from  sunrise  to  sunset,  for  those  wages  have  been  from 
fifteen  to  eighteen  centavos  (7%  to  9  cents  American)  a  working  day.  Earn¬ 
ing  only  this,  it  has  been  impossible  for  them  to  meet  the  food  requirements 
for  themselves  and  their  families.  The  government  which  arose  from  the 
Mexican  Revolution  has  made  every  effort  to  aid  the  peasant  classes  and, 
therefore,  laws  have  been  enacted  to  give  the  Indian  pueblos  the  lands  they 
have  needed  for  their  lives’  sakes.  We  desire  that  these  poor  Indians  who 
were  slaves  may  be  freed  from  such  a  pitiful  condition  and  become  small 
land  owners.  Not  only  that,  but  the  government  has  realized  that  the  problem 
was  not  solved  with  the  giving  of  lands  as  the  only  measure,  and  so  the 
financial  question  has  also  been  tackled  through  the  organization  of  a  financial 
organization.  As  the  peones  were  in  direst  poverty,  they  had  not  the  where¬ 
withal!  for  starting  to  work  and  making  the  land  given  them  by  the  govern¬ 
ment  fruitful.  We  established  then  banks  for  financing  those  who  had  been 
given  land  by  the  government,  with  the  National  Bank  of  Agricultural  Credit 
as  the  central  unit.  These  banks  are  entrusted  with  obtaining  for  the  peasants 
farming  implements,  machinery  and  the  necessary  livestock.  At  the  same 
time,  much  attention  is  being  given  to  the  social  organization  of  these  masses. 
Young  people  especially  trained  for  this  work  in  the  government  schools  are 
organizing  the  former  peones  into  cooperative  groups  to  free  them  from  being 
economically  exploited.  In  this  manner  we  desire  to  attain  to  the  economic 
independence  of  the  peasants,  because  we  believe  that  first  and  prime  atten¬ 
tion  should  be  given  to  the  exigencies  of  the  stomach.  But  at  the  same  time 

-  * 

we  are  developing  a  very  intense  cultural  effort.  We  are  establishing  schools 
in  all  centers  of  population,  no  matter  how  small  they  are,  because  we  believe 
that  it  is  absolutely  indispensable  to  raise  the  intellectual  level  of  the  people, 
especially  of  the  working  people,  this  being  the  best  help  that  can  be  given  the 
masses,  and  the  best  way  of  making  ours  a  great  and  respected  people.  The 
Government’s  program  calls  for  a  thousand  additional  schools  every  year 
throughout  the  Republic.  This  year  we  opened  a  thousand  schools  above  the 
number  that  were  functioning  last  year  and  in  next  year’s  budget  we  are 
taking  care  of  a  thousand  schools  besides  those  that  are  now  in  operation. 
My  idea  is  that  wherever  people  have  settled  down,  wherever  there  are  twenty 
resident  children  or  more,  there  should  be  a  public  school.  This  work  we  are 
carrying  on  in  the  country  is  matched  by  the  effort  we  are  likewise  making  in 
the  cities,  where  we  are  giving  special  attention  to  the  laboring  classes,  be¬ 
cause  it  is  my  belief  that  it  is  these  classes  who  need  most  immediate  help, 
considering  that  the  well-to-do  can  defend  themselves.  In  this  country,  labor 
organization  has  developed  intensely  within  the  last  few  years;  almost  all  the 
trades  are  unionized,  and  the  government  is  making  an  effort  to  make  possible 
for  these  organizations  to  have  the  benefit  of  acquiring  all  possible  culture. 
Schools  and  libraries  have  been  established,  especially  in  the  trade  unions,  and 
educational  lectures  are  being  given  constantly  to  them.  This  very  important 
work  has  made  possible  already  the  great  evolution  that  has  taken  place  in  the 
minds  of  the  working  classes,  who  have  advanced  ideas.  You  can  see  for  your¬ 
selves  that  Mexican  labor  is  backing  the  program  and  the  policies  of  the  Govern¬ 
ment.  As  I  said  before,  the  fulfillment  of  this  program  is  very  difficult  be¬ 
cause  everything  has  to  be  done  for  the  first  time.  Out'  task  is  arduous.  We' 
are  in  a  period  of  development,  of  growth.  The  Government’s  chief  aim  has 
been  the  economic  independence  of  the  country.  We  have  overlooked  no  effort 
that  we  can  make-,  that  can  be  effective,  towards  having  Mexico  become  a 
self-sufficient  country.  The  struggle  to  attain  this  is  intense,  but  after  two* 
years  of  such  work  we  find  ourselves  near  the  realization  of  our  purpose.' 


—8— 


The  Government  budget  is  well  balanced,  the  Government  is  fulfilling  its  obli¬ 
gations,  both  domestic  and  foreign;  the  Government  is  opening  highways  and 
carrying  out  large  irrigation  works;  the  irrigation  planned  calls  for  the  re¬ 
habilitation  of  a  million  hectares  of  land.  This  plan  will  be  a  reality  in  four 
years  at  the  latest  and  thereafter  Mexico  will  be  in  condition  to  produce  not 
only  all  that  is  required  for  its  own  life  but  also  a  surplus  with  which  to  come 
to  the  aid  of  other  peoples.  We  have  achieved  the  complete  reorganization  of 
our  finances,  with  the  result  that  we  have  now  all  the  resources  we  need  for 
our  national  life.  At  this  very  moment  there  are  great  schools  under  con¬ 
struction  for  the  agricultural  education  of  the  peasants.  On  September  next 
we  shall  be  ready  to  inaugurate  four  of  these  large  schools  whose  purpose  it 
will  be  to  train  men  into  able  agriculturists.  These  schools  are  not  only 
practical,  but  they  will  offer  all  of  the  comforts  and  all  of  the  facilities  that 
universities  offer.  The  Government’s  work  has  for  its  purpose  the  greatest 
welfare  possible  for  the  masses;  its  aim  is  to  make  for  the  happiness  of  the 
greatest  number  of  homes.  Naturally  this  work  does  not  meet  with  the 
approval  of  the  privileged  classes  of  the  nation. 

QUESTION :  It  is  said  in  the  United  States  that  the  program  of  the 
Mexican  Government  is  patterned  after  the  Russian  Government. 

CALLES:  Mexico  patterns  nothing  after  anybody.  The  Mexican  Govern¬ 
ment  has  its  own  problems  and  solves  them  according  to  its  own  necessities. 
It  does  not  transplant  here  anything  that  is  exotic. 

DR.  TAYLOR:  Mr.  President,  if  there  is  anything  we  can  do  for  Mexico, 
we  shall  be  only  too  glad  to  do  so.  Can  you  suggest  how  we  can  render  your 
country  some  service? 

CALLES:  I  thank  you  heartily  for  the  good  will  that  you  express.  There 
is,  indeed,  a  way  in  which  you  can  be  of  help  and  that  is  to  tell  the  truth 
about  what  you  have  found  here. 

The  Historic  Background 

of  Mexico 

The  first  item  on  the  program  of  study  by  the  Taylor  group  was  an  address 
on  the  historic  background  of  present  conditions  in  Mexico,  by  Carleton 
Beals,  author  of  “Mexico — An  Interpretation,”  an  American  writer  who  has 
spent  several  years  in  Mexico.  He  spoke  as  follows: 

When  Cortez  came  to  Mexico  he  found  social  organizations  and  govern¬ 
ments  ranking  with  and,  in  certain  things  perhaps,  surpassing  those  found  in 
Mexico  today.  Four  or  five  groups  stand  out  more  prominently  than  the 
rest.  One  of  these,  the  Nahuas,  extended  through  that  part  of  Mexico  along 
the  mountains  of  the  western  coast.  Before  the  coming  of  the  Nahuas  was  an 
earlier  race,  the  origin  of  which  is  not  known,  called  the  Toltecs.  They  migrat¬ 
ed  from  the  North  about  700  A.  D.  The  earlier  group  was  replaced  by  the 
Nahuas,  of  which  the  Aztecs  were  a  tribe.  The  late  comers  adopted  the  civiliza¬ 
tion  already  there.  A  superior  race  was  the  Maya,  occupying  the  territory 
about  Yucatan  and  extending  to  Honduras  and  parts  of  Salvador.  Each  of 
these  tribes  left  certain  relics  of  their  civilization,  and  certain  definite  con¬ 
tributions  to  the  parts  of  the  country  which  they  occupied.  The  inhabitants 
of  the  Isthmus  of  Tehuantepec  are  today  a  distinct  race,  living  largely  apart 
from  the  rest  of  Mexico. 

The  capital  of  the  Indian  civilization  was  on  the  site  of  what  is  known 


today  as  Mexico  City.  It  was  founded  in  1325.  It  developed  from  a  settle¬ 
ment  of  lake  dwellers  into  the  modern  City  of  Mexico,  which  does  not  repre¬ 
sent  Mexico,  but  a  hodgepodge  of  American,  Spanish,  and  Indian  peoples. 

The  colonial  regime  did  not  develop  the  Indian,  but  exploited  him. 
Certain  institutions  were  imposed  upon  the  people  by  the  conquering  race. 
The  priests  were  men  of  sterling  qualities  and  came  with  high  ideals,  leaving 
lucrative  positions  to  come  to  convert  the  natives,  and  they  protested  against 
the  cruel  exploitation  by  the  conquerers.  Gradually  the  religious  conquest 
became  more  and  more  like  that  of  Spain  and  the  church  worked  less  and  less 
in  behalf  of  the  Indian,  which  finally  resulted  in  a  rigid  caste  system  with 
Spain  at  the  top.  Next  was  the  Creole,  who  was  denied  many  of  the  privileges 
of  the  Spaniard,  having  few  rights  in  the  government.  Next  was  the  Mestizo, 
who  belonged  neither  to  one  civilization  nor  to  the  other,  without  country  or 
culture.  Lastly  came  the  Indian  upon  whom  fell  the  full  burden  of  the 
exploitation. 

The  movement  for  Mexican  independence  was  not  for  freedom,  but  was  a 
reactionary  movement  coming  at  a  time  when  the  old  world  was  being  attacked 
by  Napoleon  and  the  old  order  was  passing.  The  Creoles  wished  to  shut  out 
the  changes  of  the  old  world  and  to  keep  the  new  political  system  from  taking 
root  in  America.  Independence  did  not  help  the  Indian.  The  reacticnary 
movement  came  at  a  time  when  he  was  not  ready  for  independence.  The 
Mexican  government  was  established  upon  the  basis  of  a  Catholicism  far  more 
intolerant  than  that  in  Spain  at  the  same  time.  With  the  coming  of  the  idea 
of  democracy  came  the  development  of  a  federal  army  whose  overbearing 
and  egotistical  officers  imposed  their  will  upon  a  people  who,  having  been 
submerged  for  three  centuries,  were  easy  prey  to  such  efforts. 

Juarez  was  a  pure  blooded  Indian  from  Oaxaca.  It  was  not  until  he  was 
in  his  ’teens  that  he  learned  Spanish  and  how  to  read.  Later  he  studied  law, 
became  governor  of  his  state,  a  member  of  the  governing  body  of  Mexico,  and 
finally  president  of  his  country.  He  spent  much  of  his  time  in  exile  and 
much  in  unequal  contests.  He  had,  at  one  time,  to  sell  peanuts  on  the  streets 
of  New  Orleans.  Juarez  introduced  a  new  epoch  in  Mexico.  During  the 
regime  of  Diaz,  when  the  intervention  of  foreign  capital  began,  much  land 
and  mineral  and  agricultural  resources  of  the  country  were  handed  over  to 
foreigners.  As  a  result,  there  came  the  revolution  of  Madero  in  1910. 

The  earlier  program  of  Madero  showed  little  grasp  of  the  agrarian  and 
economic  problems  of  the  country.  In  Mexico  there  was  no  philosophical  back¬ 
ground  for  a  revolution.  It  just  happened.  It  was  a  pragmatic  revelation, 
finally  ending  in  the  Queretero  constitution  of  1917,  which  was  adopted  to 
solve  certain  problems  up  to  that  time.  The  most  notable  ideas  were  antagon¬ 
ism  to  the  church,  a  strong  Indian  influence,  a  reaction  against  existing  in¬ 
dustrial  conditions,  and  an  attempt  to  reserve  Mexico  for  Mexicans.  The 
people  clamored  for  means  of  popular  expression  heretofore  denied  them.  It 
was  an  interruption  of  foreign  intervention  and  the  incoming  of  foreign 
capital.  During  the  period  of  independence  there  was  no  real  form  of  popular 
organization.  The  present  period  is  the  first  since  the  Conquest  in  which  the 
Mexican  people  have  found  a  means  of  achieving  popular  organization.  The 
attempt  at  popular  organization  is  something  new  and  untried  in  Mexican 
history.  There  is  a  tendency  toward  social  organization  of  popular  groups 
attempting  to  work  out  problems  involved,  rather  than  having  them  solved  by 
selfish  or  egotistical  and  unfriendly  ruling  groups,  who  constantly  quarrel 
among  themselves. 

The  period  of  reconstruction  following  the  revolution  includes  the  adminis¬ 
trations  of  Caranza,  Obregon,  and  Calles.  There  are  very  difficult  problems 


—10— 


to  be  solved  and  we  should  sympathize  with  the  people  in  their  effort  to 
establish  a  plan  of  human  liberty.  We  should  not  harass  or  suspect  them. 
We  are  dealing  with  a  problem,  not  merely  of  Mexico,  but  of  all  Latin  America. 
We  are  face  to  face  with  a  great  racial  bloc  and  a  great  racial  culture.  It  is 
not  the  mere  question  of  a  moment;  it  is  a  much  more  serious  business.  ,  It  is 
the  question  of  a  policy  toward  Latin  America  and  the  future  peaceful  relation¬ 
ships  of  the  Western  Hemisphere. 

Questions  and  Answers 

QUESTION:  Was  it  Juarez,  the  peanut  seller,  who  later  returned  and 
ousted  Maximilian? 

ANSWER:  It  was. 

QUESTION:  Will  you  evaluate  the  injustice  done  to  those  who  came 
here  to  develop  the  country? 

ANSWER:  We  must  consider  the  future  happiness  of  the  people  as  well 
as  the  question  of  justice  to  those  who  have  served.  Some  foreign  capital 
suffered  as  a  result  of  the  1910-1926  revolution,  while  some  of  the  investors 
made  a  great  deal  at  the  time.  The  restitution  of  properties  and  the  re¬ 
ordering  of  social  organizations  is  somewhat  the  same  principle  of  conservation 
as  that  followed  in  the  United  States.  The  earlier  grants  of  Spain  were  based 
upon  agricultural,  pasturage,  and  mineral  rights,  and  many  old  titles  have  been 
handed  down  from  one  to  the  other  without  being  cleared  up.  The  idea  of 
sub-soil  rights  has  long  been  in  existence  and  was  in  dispute  prior  to  1917. 
Caranza  insisted  upon  the  filing  of  titles  and  was  opposed  by  oil  and  mineral 
interests  because  of  an  agreement  between  them  not  to  contest  each  other’s 
titles.  Many  disputes  arose  from  this  opposition.  At  one  time,  upon  the  in¬ 
vestigation  of  certain  objections  of  the  United  States,  it  was  found  that  Mex¬ 
ican  oil  companies  were  paying  more  taxes  to  the  United  States  than  to 
Mexico.  The  foreign  property  holding  law  limits  the  holding  of  foreign  prop¬ 
erty  along  the  boundaries  and  says  they  must  relinquish  right  to  appeal  through 
diplomatic  channels  to  their  own  government  in  case  of  disputes  arising  with 
Mexico.  These  things  have  lessened  the  inflow  of  foreign  capital.  Perhaps 
Mexico  will  be  better  off  with  a  slower  inflow  of  foreign  capital.  A  too  rapid 
introduction  of  foreign  culture  and  capital  may  cause  trouble  as  in  Mexico  and 
China  today. 

QUESTION:  What  will  be  the  result  of  the  withdrawal  of  foreign  capital 
from  Mexico? 

ANSWER:  It  is  doubtful  whether  or  not  the  amount  of  foreign  capital 
invested  in  Mexico  is  any  less  than  before  the  revolution.  It  is  possible  that 
the  amount  is  even  greater. 

QUESTION:  Has  foreign  capital  suffered? 

ANSWER:  Most  of  the  petroleum  companies  have  managed  to  pay 

dividends. 

QUESTION:  What  has  the  investment  of  foreign  money  left  behind  for 
Mexico? 

ANSWER:  The  Spaniards  left  beautiful  churches  and  evidences  of  civili¬ 
zation,  but  when  the  oil  and  minerals  are  taken  out,  we  do  not  know  what  will 
be  left.  The  government  gets  a  revenue;  Mexicans  get  employment,  at  per¬ 
haps  a  higher  wage  than  in  many  other  places  in  Mexico. 

QUESTION:  Do  the  local  states  have  the  power  to  build  schools  with 
tax  money? 

ANSWER:  Taxes  on  petroleum  are  federal  and  go  into  funds  for  the 
general  administration  of  the  government. 


11 — 


QUESTION:  Does  a  consciousness  of  original  indigenous  groups  still 

exist  today,  affecting  the  social  groups  of  today? 

ANSWER:  Yes.  The  Indians  are  conscious  of  old  tribal  relationships. 
The  Mayas  have  made  several  attempts  to  separate  from  the  central  govern¬ 
ment.  An  appeal  was  made  to  the  United  States  and  to  Guatemala  as  late  as 
1920. 

QUESTION:  Is  the  group  consciousness  based  on  old  traditions? 

ANSWER:  It  may  be  consciousness  of  kind,  a  certain  social  homogeneity 
which  has  historical  roots.  There  is  some  survival  as  to  religious  concepts, 
handicrafts,  and  language. 

QUESTION:  Is  the  government  doing  anything  to  educate  the  masses  on 
current  problems? 

ANSWER:  I  do  not  know  whether  or  not  the  government  has  set  out 
with  anti-church  propaganda.  Anti-church  ideas  are  a  motivating  cause  of  the 
revolution.  Educational  work  is' being  done  throughout  the  nation  in  the  way 
of  manual  training,  etc. 

QUESTION:  What  per  cent  of  the  children  will  be  without  schooling  if 
the  church  schools  are  suppressed? 

ANSWER:  Schools  are  not  obliged  to  close  provided  they  do  not  teach 
religion.  Churches  have  known  they  were  conducting  establishments  contrary 
to  the  government  in  Mexico;  therefore,  they  are  as  much  culpable  as  is  the 
government.  The  greater  part  of  the  school  population  was  in  government 
schools. 

QUESTION:  Will  there  be  a  loss  to  school  facilities  as  to  faculty,  etc.? 

ANSWER:  Yes. 

QUESTION:  Are  government  teachers  ready  to  take  up  the  work? 

ANSWER:  The  government  has  an  educational  system.  If  private  schools 
cease  to  exist,  the  government  schools  will  go  on.  But  the  government  has 
difficulties  on  account  of  lack  of  money. 

QUESTION:  Is  there  any  way  of  estimating  what  proportion  of  time 
these  church  teachers  gave  to  secular  teaching  and  what  will  be  the  loss  in 
ordinary  education  as  done  in  public  schools? 

ANSWER:  I  will  not  venture  upon  any  statistics  because  I  have  not 
checked  up  on  conditions. 

QUESTION:  Is  foreign  capital  obedient  and  becoming  friendly  to 

government? 

ANSWER:  A  group  of  oil  people  said  they  would  agree  to  government 
regulations  if  given  special  concessions  by  the  government.  They  see  which 
way  the  wind  blows  and  then  obey  the  laws  if  it  is  to  their  advantage  to  do 
so.  Naturally  they  resent  the  restrictions  and  call  it  persecution  at  first,  until 
they  become  accustomed  to  the  law,  then  they  obej'^  with  less  and  less  of  com¬ 
plaint.  Many  are  agreeing  to  work  by  the  new  laws. 

QUESTION:  To  what  extent  would  native  Mexicans  be  able  to  carry  on 
their  industries  if  the  United  States  and  England  should  withdraw  their  in¬ 
vested  capital? 

ANSWER:  The  withdrawal  of  foreign  capital  is  doubtful  and  improbable. 
Such  withdrawal,  should  it  take  place,  would  be  disastrous.  It  would  be  im¬ 
possible  for  the  Mexicans  to  take  up  the  lines  of  industry  immediately,  and 
develop  them. 

QUESTION:  Is  the  present  situation  due  to  the  religious  history? 

ANSWER:  I  would  hesitate  to  attribute  all  to  one  cause.  The  conflict 
is  of  long  standing.  Many  factors  are  responsible.  The  revolution  leaders 
have  had  a  consistent  anti-church  history,  however. 


12 


Mexican  Protestant  Views 

ON  July  29  the  Taylor  group  heard  addresses  by  several  Mexican  Protestant 
leaders  and  asked  questions  of  them.  The  Rev.  Vicente  Mendoza,  pastor 
of  a  prominent  Methodist  Episcopal  Church  of  Mexico  City  said: 

Perhaps  you  have  heard  in  the  United  States  that  the  Mexican  govern¬ 
ment  is  swallowing  Protestants.  We  represent  practically  all  orthodox  Protes¬ 
tant  churches.  For  the  last  fifty  years  we  have  been  doing  our  work  under 
the  handicap  arising  from  the  old  traditions  of  these  people,  created  by  and 
founded  upon  Catholic  thought  and  traditions.  When  we  came  here,  the  Catho¬ 
lic  church  started  persecution  everjrwhere.  Nevertheless,  we  have  succeeded 
with  our  schools  and  all  of  them  are  filled  to  overflowing  with  students.  This 
means  that  the  Catholic  people  accept  our  standards  of  teaching  and  recognize 
the  superiority  of  our  schools  over  those  of  the  government.  Now  the  govern¬ 
ment  has  started  a  real  attempt  toward  establishing  better  schools.  Our 
Christian  schools  are  still  on  the  very  best  basis  of  morality  and  adhere  to  a 
high  type  of  Christian  teaching.  We  have  conquered  in  Mexico  by  means  of 
our  schools. 

We  find  serious  difficulties  because  of  propaganda  of  Catholics.  When  we 
came,  they  circulated  the  story  that  we  were  here  to  give  money  to  those  who 
would  go  to  our  church.  Later  they  scattered  the  announcement  that  some 
missionaries  were  coming  with  much  money  in  order  to  make  Protestants  of 
all  the  people. 

Another  handicap  is  certain  social  ideas  which  make  it  difficult  for  us  to 
enlist  certain  classes  of  men  in  Mexico.  They  are  our  friends,  but  only  in  the 
shadows  of  night.  They  go  to  our  schools  and  applaud  our  work  but  time 
after  time,  upon  meeting  us  on  the  street,  they  turn  their  faces  to  avoid 
greeting  us  and  showing  that  we  are  their  friends.  Especially  is  this  true  where 
the  Catholic  church  has  a  stronger  hold  and  influence  on  the  people.  In 
Mexico  City,  where  there  are  more  liberal  ideas  and  more  intercourse  between 
men  and  women  it  is  not  so  true,  but  it  is  true  even  here  to  some  extent.  They 
fear  for  their  social  prestige.  The  women  particularly  are  loyal  to  the  Catholic 
church.  Many  men  go  with  their  wives,  even  when  they  do  not  believe  as  do 
the  women.  When  we  were  starting  a  new  line  of  education  in  our  churches, 
they  realized  our  ability  and  helped  us,  showing  an  appreciation  of  our  ef¬ 
forts.  When  we  are  farther  along  in  our  work  and  the  system  is  better 
developed,  we  may  succeed  in  getting  these  men  of  high  position  to  join  us, 
openly.  Now  we  are  going  ahead  with  our  work  and  are  seldom  molested. 
Sometimes,  in  little  towns,  we  are  embarrassed  in  our  work  by  people  in¬ 
fluenced  by  the  teaching  of  priests.  We  have  been  accused  of  accepting  a 
foreign  belief  and  of  being  untrue  to  our  own  country.  This  accusation  is 
made  only  by  people  of  a  certain  type,  who  do  not  think  for  themselves,  but 
who  are  usually  led  by  priests  or  so-called  patriots. 

In  spite  of  all  hindrances,  our  work  is  going  ahead  and  many  opportuni¬ 
ties  are  being  opened  to  us.  If  you  go  to  our  churches  next  Sunday,  you  will 
find  every  seat  taken.  My  church  accommodates  more  than  600  people  and  all 
seats  are  taken  every  Sunday.  In  time  of  difficulties  we  sometimes  have  a 
larger  attendance. 

We  feel  handicapped  by  the  recent  regulations  of  the  government,  but 
different  laws  cannot  be  made  for  different  people.  One  law  must  be  for  all. 
Though  the  law  aims  at  the  Roman  Church,  we  must  submit  because  it  is  best 
for  all  of  us.  We  have  no  missionaries  really,  now,  in  Mexico.  The  work  is 
under  the  Mexican  leadership  entirely.  Our  people  are  a  good  example  of 


13— 


’submission  to  the  law.  We  are  glad  to  submit.  We  can  find  other  ways  of 
spreading  the  influence  of  the  gospel.  They  may  separate  our  schools  from 
our  churches  if  they  wish.  We  can  teach  religion  in  many  ,ways.  We  are 
trying  to  teach  through  personality,  in  life,  in  the  street,  everywhere.  We 
Protestants  submit  to  the  law  and  obey  the  law.  If  the  law  is  against  us, 
there  is  a  legal  way  to  try  to  change  it,  better  than  the  effort  to  change  it  by 
breaking  it. 

Now  is  the  chance  for  the  Protestant  people.  Everything  is  said  to  be 
made  in  our  behalf.  The  government  is  treating  us  exactly  as  it  treats  other 
people,  but  we  are  not  suffering  because  we  are  obeying  the  law.  We  work 
together  for  the  good  of  all  the  people.  We  do  not  object  to  this  restriction. 
We  are  willing  to  obey  our  government  because  we  know  it  is  for  our  good 
and  for  the  good  of  other  people. 

Questions  and  Answers 

QUESTION:  Are  the  Protestant  pastors  really  not  worried  over  the 
present  situation?  Do  the  Protestant  pastors  as  a  body  agree  with  you?  Are 
they  willing  to  go  ahead  with  their  work  or  do  they  object? 

(All  those  present  said  they  agreed  with  Mendoza  in  their  willingness  to 
accept  and  make  the  best  of  the  situation.) 

QUESTION:  Are  the  pastors  entirely  in  agreement  with  the  recent  limi¬ 
tation  of  the  religious  press? 

ANSWER:  You  misunderstand.  The  government  is  only  enforcing  the 
law  of  1917.  No  restriction  or  regulation  of  the  press  has  molested  the 
Protestant  people. 

QUESTION:  Why  did  the  government  feel  it  necessary  to  forbid  com¬ 
ments  on  governmental  action? 

ANSWER:  Because  Catholics  have  made  obedience  to  their  own  rules  so 
compelling  and  the  authority  of  a  priest  is  so  undisputed  that  comment  by  the 
Catholic  papers  would  be  compelling  to  every  Catholic  without  any  chance  for 
questioning. 

QUESTION:  Do  any  of  the  Protestant  ministers  write  for  the  daily 
press? 

ANSWER:  Yes, 

QUESTION:  Is  there  a  Catholic  political  party? 

ANSWER:  That  party  is  dormant  but  they  have  their  own  officials  and 
are  waiting  for  an  opportunity.  When  Madero  came  into  power  they  came 
forward  and  organized  the  National  Catholic  Party,  which  is  still  organized,  but 
they  are  not  before  the  public.  The  Constitution  forbids  any  political  party 
having  a  religious  name. 

QUESTION:  Why  did  the  Constitution  prohibit  the  clergy  from  having 
the  power  of  voting? 

ANSWER:  They  wanted  to  allow  for  real  democracy  and  a  free  expres¬ 
sion  of  opinion.  The  opinion  of  the  priests  here  is  accepted  blindly  by  every 
Catholic  and  every  Catholic  would  votje  with  the  priests. 


Dr.  Andres  Osuna,  distinguished  educator,  formerly  governor  of  the  State 
of  Tamaulipas,  spoke  as  follows: 

The  religious  situation  in  Mexico  is  to  be  properly  understood  through 
knowing  the  historical  background.  When  the  conquerers  came,  the  priests 
came  with  them  with  religious  authority.  When  they  appealed  to  the  Pope 
for  authority  to  possess  the  new  world,  the  Pope  divided  it  between  Spain  and 
Portugal.  The  Concordat  provided  authority  to  Spanish  kings  to  recommend 


—14— 


the  clergy  to  office;  thus  the  king  and  the  Catholic  church  in  Spain  were 
brought  together.  When  the  work  was  first  begun  here,  really  great  mission¬ 
aries  were  sent  over.  But  their  work  was  not  continued.  After  three  hundred 
years,  very  little  result  of  their  efforts  could  be  seen.  The  chief  aim  soon 
became  that  of  keeping  the  colonies  obedient  to  Spain. 

The  entire  matter  of  education  was  turned  over  to  the  church.  Though 
there  were  five  or  six  colleges  in  Mexico  City,  the  first  being  as  early  as  1553, 
the  work  was  limited.  As  educators,  the  church  had  all  the  money  they 
wanted — real  estate  and  endowments.  Authorities  say  that  the  church  owned 
about  50  per  cent  of  all  the  real  estate,  some  placing  the  percentage  as  high 
as  66  2/3.  In  spite  of  the  enormous  wealth  of  the  church,  300  years  of  the 
colonial  regime  left  about  one-half  of  one  per  cent  of  the  people  with  the 
ability  to  read  and  write,  even  though  the  natives  were  eager  and  able  to  learn. 
Of  six  million  people,  about  thirty  thousand  knew  how  to  read  and  write.  They 
had  the  religious  instruction  of  the  church,  but  they  had  not  been  taught 
Christianity.  The  majority  of  the  people  were  just  as  pagan  as  when  the 
Spaniards  came  into  the  country. 

Relics  of  Indian  architecture,  including  the  Aztec  calender  and  other 
pieces  of  sculpture,  were  unearthed,  collected,  and  placed  on  exhibit  in  Mexico 
City.  It  was  noticed  that  some  of  the  natives,  the  full  blooded  Indians,  came 
always  late  in  the  afternoon  to  see  the  exhibits.*  Upon  investigation,  it  was 
learned  that  they  came  to  worship  the  idols  and  to  bring  offerings.  They  were, 
after  three  hundred  years,  worshipping  their  old  Indian  idols.  This  is  only  an 
illustration  of  the  religious  conditions  of  the  masses. 

The  church  was  closely  connected  with  the  Spanish  government.  The 
archbishop  was  a  great  power  allied  with  the  viceroy.  But  when  the  War  of 
Independence  came,  there  was  a  division  of  the  clergy,  Spain  decreed  that  all 
officers  in  the  church  should  be  selected  from  those  born  and  educated  in 
Spain,  so  as  to  prevent  Mexico  from  slipping  away  from  Spanish  influence.  The 
well  educated  and  intelligent  native  born  had  no  chance  at  all.  The  lower 
clergy  was  in  sympathy  with  the  revolution,  but  the  higher  officers  cursed  the 
movement  and  persecuted  the  sympathizers.  There  was  a  tremendous  conflict 
between  parts  of  the  clergy  during  the  War  of  Independence. 

The  Spanish  passed  the  Constitution  of  1812  restricting  the  church  and 
confiscating  part  of  its  property,  but  the  law  was  put  away  when  Ferdinand 
returned  to  power.  Later  the  king  of  Spain  was  forced  to  acknowledge  the 
Constitution.  The  priests  here,  seeing  that  they  would  lose  their  property, 
entered  into  an  agreement  with  Iturbide  to  get  him  appointed  chief  of  the 
colonial  army  here  and  to  bring  about  the  independence  of  the  colonies  in  order 
to  save  the  church,  but  not  in  order  to  help  the  colonies.  The  church  was, 
therefore,  left  as  a  state  church  and  the  same  hierarchy  was  left  as  ruler  of 
the  country,  in  spite  of  the  fact  that  for  more  than  ten  years  they  had  been 
fighting  the  movement  of  independence. 

Then  we  began  an  independent  life  and  tried  to  organize  parties.  There 
was  organized  a  Conservative  Party,  which  was  a  church  party,  and  a  Liberal 
Party.  The  church  stood  always  in  the  way  cf  the  Liberal  Party.  The  Mex¬ 
ican  independent  government  sought  a  contract  from  the  Pope  to  have  the 
same  privileges  that  Spain  had.  The  bishops  protested  against  the  congress 
and  declared  that  they  could  not  accept  such  a  contract.  They  were  willing  to 
be  under  the  government  of  Spain,  but  not  under  the  independent  government 
here.  The  Liberal  element  then  passed  the  Constitution  of  1857  restricting  the 
privileges  of  the  church  and  establishing'  the  basis  of  a  modern  democratic 
government.  From  1821  to  1857  the  Liberal  Party  had  always  to  fight  revolu¬ 
tions  fomented  by  the  other  party  when  such  party  was  not  in  control.  Then 


—15— 


came  the  struggle  between  1858,  '59,  and  ’60,  which  is  known  as  the  War  of 
Reformation  because  the  Reform  Laws  were  enacted,  making  it  clear  that  the 
church  and  state  must  be  separated.  When  defeated,  the  church  party  sent  to 
Europe  and  tried  to  establish  a  monarchy  under  Maximilian,  supported  by  a 
French  army. 

When  the  long  administration  of  General  Diaz  w^as  established,  he  follow’^ed 
closely  the  platform  of  the  Liberal  party,  but  later  he  gave  up  altogether  to 
the  Catholic  church  and  allowed  them  to  break  the  law's  any  way  they  pleased. 
:•  When  the  revolution  was  started  under  Madero  in  1910,  the  church  sup¬ 
ported  the  dictatorial  government  of  General  Diaz.  After  Madero  was  elected 
president,  they  fomented  a  conspiracy  to  overthrow  him.  Finally  General 
Hnerta  took  hold  of  the  government  and  killed  Madero  and  Vice  President 
Pina  Suarez.  Of  course,  the  church  was  backing  him  up  and  continued  to 
do  So  when  the  whole  nation  rose  in  arms  against  the  usurper  and  the  assasin 
general. 

The  three  or  four  years  of  civil  war  made  the  struggle  between  the  church 
and  the  revolutionary  movement  more  bitter.  In  any  split  of  the  revolution¬ 
ary  forces,  the  church  always  supported  the  group  which  was  trying  to  re¬ 
establish  the  old  regime.  Therefore,  the  church  was  in  the  field  of  politics 
and  of  civil  war,  always  standing  for  the  reactionary  movement. 

After  the  revolutionaries  controlled  the  country,  they  had  a  public  election 
of .  a  congress.  The  whole  nation  convened  at  Queretero  and  enacted  the 
new  Constitution  of  1917.  In  that  Constitution,  they  took  up  all  the  laws 
which  had  been  a  part  of  our  Constitution  since  1867  restricting  the  activities 
of  the  church,  and  added  a  few  more  to  correct  all  the  evils  in  the  church 
field  and  to  secure  the  complete  independence  of  the  church  and  the  state. 

i  The  church  has  always  had,  in  Mexico,  a  political  program  more  promi¬ 
nent  than  its  religious  program.  Today  we  have  the  government  endeavoring 
to  put  down  the  political  working  of  the  church,  enforcing  the  laws  to  prevent 
any  church  from  getting  political  control.  There  is  no  religious  persecution 
at  all. 


Questions  and  Answers 

QUESTION:  What  particular  political  program  of  the  Catholic  church  is 
it  that  has  so  recently  caused  the  government  to  take  a  stand? 

ANSWER:  The  Catholics  desire  to  put  down  the  Constitution.  They  do 
not  believe  in  the  separation  of  the  church  and  the  state.  They  want  the  state 
under  the  control  of  the  church.  They  wish  to  have  the  Catholic  doctrine 
taught  in  all  schools.  The  government  has  made  regulations  restricting  all 
private  schools  to  counteract  this. 

QUESTION:  Do  you  feel  that  the  government  thought  the  Catholic 

people  were  beginning  a  revolution? 

ANSWER:  Yes.  It  was  found  that  in  five  or  six  cities  a  revolution  was 
being  organized  to  overthrow  the  present  government.  One  Catholic  told  me 
that  the  priests  and  the  nuns  were  causing  all  this  trouble.  One  nun  said  that 
they  were  working  to  overthrow  this  government.  These  are  just  examples  of 
information  which  I,  personally,  have  received  from  my  friends. 

QUESTION:  Are  any  of  the  priests  supporting  the  government? 

ANSWER:  They  do  not  dare  challenge  the  power  of  the  church. 

QUESTION:  How  many  of  the  priests  in  Mexico  City  are  of  Mexican 
birth? 

ANSWER:  At  present,  I  think,  all  are.  It  is  the  same  with  the  bishops. 

QUESTION:  Are  any  of  the  priests  at  heart  favorable  to  the  procedure? 


—16— 


ANSWER:  I  believe  so,  but  they  do  not  say  so  publicly.  Many  Catholics 
are  also  in  harmony  with  the  government.  You  will  see  in  the  parade  next 
Sunday  some  of  those  who  wish  to  show  themselves  favorable  to  the  govern¬ 
ment.  The  majority  of  the  Catholics  do  not  believe  in  the  program  of  the 
higher  clergy  of  the  church. 

QUESTION:  Are  there  any  leaders  among  the  Mexican  Catholic  priests 
who  would  go  so  far  as  to  advocate  the  government  against  the  church? 

ANSWER:  I  believe  if  the  bishops  withdraw  all  priests  from  the  churches 
as  they  plan  to  do  next  Saturday,  it  will  be  shown  that  there  are  many  who 
really  do  not  want  to  obey  the  bishops,  but  to  abide  by  the  law.  Of  course, 
the  Catholic  discipline  is  very  rigid  and  strong,  though  many  do  not  agree 
with  it. 

QUESTION:  Are  the  Catholics  more  favorable  to  the  Protestants  now? 

ANSWER:  I  believe  they  are.  They  at  least  acknowledge  that  we  are  a 
part  of  Christianity  and  do  not  call  us  heretics.  We  feel  that  we  may  expect 
a  great  increase  in  the  Protestant  church  in  the  next  few  years.  Education 
has  probably  helped  the  Protestants. 

QUESTION:  In  what  parts  of  Mexico  have  there  been  attempts  to  hatch 
plots  against  the  Government? 

ANSWER:  In  Aguascalientes,  Durango,  Queretero,  Chihuahua,  Jalisco, 
and  in  Puebla  at  one  time. 

QUESTION:  How  is  oil  connected  with  the  cause  of  the  Protestants? 

ANSWER:  The  oil  question  has  brought  about  all  the  foment.  Oil  in¬ 
vestors  want  laws  more  suitable  to  their  own  methods  of  carrying  on  business. 
They  are  constantly  bringing  about  agitation.  The  Catholics  have  not  been 
able  to  overthrow  the  government,  working  alcne.  Now  oil  has  offered  them 
money  to  assist  them  in  carrying  out  their  plans  and  the  conflict  has  come  to 
a  head.  Oil  is  encouraged  by  the  church  and  Ihe  church  by  oil  interests.  The 
conflict  between  the  church  and  state  would  have  been  there  just  the  same, 
if  oil  interests  had  not  entered;  but  there  would  have  been  delay  in  bringing 
the  matter  to  an  issue. 

QUESTION:  Could  the  priests  go  ahead  with  their  services  if  they 

wished? 

ANSWER:  Yes.  It  is  practically  an  ecclesiastical  strike. 

QUESTION :  What  is  the  opinion  of  the  Catholics  in  the  United  States? 

ANSWER:  They  do  not  know  conditions  here.  They  are  led  to  believe  it 
is  religious  persecution.  A  Catholic  clergyman  in  the  United  States  said  that 
if  conditions  in  Mexico  were  explained  to  the  Catholics  in  the  United  States, 
they  would  understand  and  they  would  welcome  the  explanation. 

QUESTION:  Do  you  believe  the  governm.ent  will  weather  this  crisis? 

ANSWER:  They  have  perfect  control  of  the  whole  situation.  There  will 
be  local  difficulties,  however.  One  Catholic  told  me  that  already  armed  troops 
were  ready  to  protect  some  churches  and  to  defend  them  against  the  commit¬ 
tees  to  be  sent  by  the  government  to  take  charge  of  them,  turning  them  over 
to  trustees  appointed  to  take  care  of  the  church  properties,  keep  the  buildings 
open  for  the  use  of  worshippers,  prevent  desecrations,  etc. 

QUESTION:  What  about  the  liberal  group  among  the  Catholics  who  have 
left  the  Catholic  church  without  yet  accepting  the  Protestant  faith? 

ANSWER:  They  are  not  making  great  progress.  They  lack  leadership. 
It  is  possible  that  they  may  gain  some  ground  during  this  strike. 

QUESTION:  Are  some  of  the  priests  agnostic? 

ANSWER:  99  per  cent  of  the  priests  in  Mexico  are  agnostic;  every  one 
to  whom  I  have  talked  personally  does  not  believe  what  he  professes,  but  holds 
to  his  position  as  a  business.  It  is  his  duty,  his  business  to  teach  the  people' 


17 — 


certain  doctrines,  however  little  faith  he  himself  may  have  in  them.  They  do 
not  know  whether  there  is  a  God  or  not,  but  they  profess  to  believe. 

QUESTION:  Is  the  government  sending  commissioners  to  the  churches 
Sunday? 

ANSWER:  They  will  take  charge  of  the  churches  Sunday,  appointing 
groups  of  ten  men  to  take  care  of  the  buildings.  The  Archbishop  says  that 
he  will,  turn  the  church  over  to  “the  .faithful”.  The  government  says  the 
churches  must  be  in  charge  of  committees  chosen  by  the  government.  The 
government  offered  to  leave  the  churches  in  charge  of  committees  selected  by 
the  membership,  from  their  own  congregations.  Some  of  the  churches  complied 
and  made  the  appointments;  others  refused.  The  only  thing  the  bishop  has 
done  is  to  “turn  it  over  to  the  faithful”.  Consequently  the  government  says 
that  the  committees  shall  be  of  its  own  choice. 

QUESTION:  Does  any  law  place  the  control  of  church  property  in  the 
hands  of  the  congregations?  ♦ 

ANSWER:  The  government  says  the  property  belongs  to  the  government, 
and  that  they  will  put  it  into  the  hands  of  the  group  of  people  selected  and 
accepted  by  the  government.  It  is  willing  to  allow  the  church  to  select  the 
committee,  but  not  the  bishop.  The  Protestant  church  is  obeying.  The  com¬ 
mittee  does  not  have  control  over  the  income,  but  only  exists  to  take  care  of 
the  church,  to  be  responsible  for  its  furnishings,  etc.  Systematic  inventories 
are  to  be  made  so  that  all  properties  may  be  kept  up  with.  They  are  to  keep 
the  buildings  clean  and  in  proper  condition  for  the  worship  of  the  people.  The 
Catholic  church  will  still  receive  its  revenues.  The  committee  in  charge  of  each 
church  is  to  be  chosen  from  its  own  congregation. 

QUESTION:  Will  there  be  difficulty  in  finding  men  who  are  willing  to 
serve  on  such  committees? 

ANSWER:  Not  in  the  case  of  Protestants.  In  many  places  committees 
are  already  being  formed. 

QUESTION:  Does  every  church  have  a  well  defined  limit  of  pastorate? 

ANSWER:  I  do  not  know  how  it  is  in  Mexico  City,  but  there  are  some 
cities  in  which  it  is  true  in  theory.  They  may  have  several  priests  in  the 
same  church,  however. 

QUESTION:  Why  does  the  government  limit  the  number  of  churches? 

ANSWER:  The  government  limited  the  number  of  churches  in  order  to 
protect  the  people.  The  government  considers  too  many  churches  a  burden 
upon  the  people. 

QUESTION:  What  does  the  government  plan  to  do  with  the  property  of 
the  closed  churches? 

ANSWER:  They  have,  in  the  past,  used  them  for  other  public  uses,  such 
as  libraries. 

QUESTION:  How  many  churches  will  be  closed  in  Mexico  City  next  Sun¬ 
day  because  of  the  withdrawal  of  priests? 

ANSWER:  Eighty-two,  the  local  papers  say. 

QUESTION:  Can  the  government  confiscate  church  property  when  they 
please? 

ANSWER:  Church  properties  were  confiscated  in  the  laws  of  1859,  but 
there  has  not  been  a  rigid  enforcement  of  the  laws. 

QUESTION:  Does  the  government  own  the  Protestant 'churches? 

ANSWER:  Theoretically,  yes.  In  1874  there  was  passed  a  law  by  which 
local  congregations  could  own  local  church  property.  Many  were  incorporated 
under  this  law.  These  congregatipns  may  own  their  own  church  property 
according  to  the  opinion  of  certain  government  officials.  As  a  general  prin¬ 
ciple  the  government  can  confiscate  the  property  of  the  churches;  in  fact,  has 


—18— 


already  done  so,  though  the  confiscatory  laws  have  not  been  entirely  enforced. 
But  there  are  many,  many  details  of  the  law  that  remain  yet  to  be  worked  out. 
Much  work  is  being  done  now  toward  working  out  the  various  details. 

QUESTION:  Suppose  a  small  church  desires  to  sell  out  and  move;  can 
they  sell  their  property? 

ANSWER:  Probably,  with  the  permission  of  the  government.  I  do  not 
know  exactly  that. 

QUESTION:  What  about  starting  a  new  church? 

ANSWER:  I  do  not  know.  The  Constitution  states  that  any  new  church 
belongs  to  the  government.  A  new  church  can  be  built  by  submitting  to  the 
legal  requirements  of  the  government.  But  even  then  the  building  is  in  control 
of  the  government.  The  congregation  must  guarantee  the  use  of  the  church  all 
the  time.  It  cannot  be  allowed  to  stand  idle.  The  Constitution  provides  that 
the  church  can  be  used  under  legal  restrictions.  Much  of  this  remains  to  be 
arranged.  The  government  can  close  a  church  if  it  does  not  conform  to  the 
regulations. 

QUESTION:  Does  the  government  have  control  of  the  income  of  the 
church  and  its  general  finances? 

ANSWER:  I  believe  so.  Nothing  has  been  said  to  the  contrary. 

QUESTION:  Do  the  churches  own  property  outside  of  the  church  build¬ 
ing? 

ANSWER:  Such  ownership  is  forbidden  by  law  and  the  property  can  be 
confiscated  if  the  ownership  is  discovered. 

QUESTION:  What  is  the  relation  of  “oil  to  incense”?  Do  you  know  of 
the  situation  in  Venezuela?  The  relation  of  the  government  of  the  United 
States  to  the  dictatorship  in  Venezuela,  the  oil  interests,  the  Catholics,  etc.? 

ANSWER:  We  know  how  they  have  been  using  money  here  freely  to 
carry  out  their  program  of  developing  the  oil  industry.  Much  has  been  spent 
in  bribes.  Private  meetings  have  been  held  in  the  United  States  by  men  in¬ 
terested  in  the  oil  industry  in  Mexico,  in  which  meetings  the  government  of 
Mexico  was  discussed.  The  Catholics  and  the  oil  interests  of  Mexico  are 
working  hand  in  hand  in  the  United  States.  Most  of  the  oil  companies  have 
accepted  the  existing  regulations.  They  are  not  acting;  they  are  waiting.  I 
do  not  know  anything  about  Venezuela. 

QUESTION:  Do  any  of  the  religious  orders  conduct  secondary  and  pre¬ 
paratory  schools? 

ANSWER:  No  school  can  be  in  the  hands  of  a  church  or  the  minister  of 
any  church.  They  may  teach  religion,  in  the  secondary  schools,  but  they  must 
not  be  organized  under  the  church.  Ministers  may  teach  even  in  primary 
schools.  Churches  may  hold  Sunday  schools. 

QUESTION:  Can  any  non-Mexican  born  man  speak  at  all  in  the  churches 
at  the  present  time? 

ANSWER:  The  addition  to  the  penal  code  gives  definitions  for  the  exer¬ 
cise  of  the  ministry,  which  prevents  non-Mexican  born  ministers  speaking  in 
the  churches  or  in  places  which  are  regarded  as  church  property. 

QUESTION :  Does  the  Catholic  church  oppose  the  circulation  of  Bibles 
among  its  people? 

ANSWER:  Yes  and  no.  They  claim  that  they  recommend  the  circula¬ 
tion  of  Bibles  here,  but  the  price  is  very  high.  They  say,  “We  have  the 
Bibles”,  but  the  price  says,  “No”. 

QUESTION:  Do  they  oppose  the  sale  of  Bibles  by  the  Protestants? 

ANSWER:  It  would  be  useless.  The  people  are  buying  the  Bible  and 
the  demand  is  greater  than  the  supply.  The  government  made  a  special  edi¬ 
tion  of  the  Gospels,  recently,  for  libraries  and  schools.  The  government  en- 


—19 


courages  the  circulation  of  Bibles.  The  Catholics  want  only  their  own  Bible, 
published  with  notes. 


H.  Marroguin,  a  representative  of  the  American  Bible  Society,  answered 
the  following  questions: 

QUESTION:  How  large  is  the  circulation  of  the  Bible  in  Mexico? 

ANSWER:  We  sell  about  33,000  volumes  a  year.  About  one-third  are 
New  Testaments.  The  Gospels  sell  at  five  centavos  each.  A  new  Catholic 
version  of  the  Bible  has  just  been  published  in  El  Paso.  It  sells  for  $3.00, 
American  money.  Our  cheapest  Bible  is  sold  for  $1.15,  Mexican  currency. 

QUESTION:  Is  thei*e  any  difference  between  the  Catholic  and  the 

Protestant  versions? 

ANSWER:  The  Catholic  authorized  version  is  published  with  its  own 
notes.  There  may  be  some  difference.  It  is  a  handy  volume.  We  shall  give 
one  to  our  colporteurs,  to  show  the  Catholics  they  do  not  know  their  own 
book. 

QUESTION:  Does  the  Catholic  church  publish  any  Bible  without  notes? 

ANSWER:  No,  even  the  New  Testament  is  published  with  notes. 

QUESTION:  When  the  Protestants  give  the  gospel  story  to  the  natives, 
do;  they  appear  to  hear  it  for  the  first  time? 

ANSWER:  The  priests  have  not  taught  them  except  to  a  small  degree. 
The  Virgin  and  the  saints  are  given  more  emphasis.  The  recent  administration 
has  increased  the  interest  in  the  Bible. 

QUESTION:  Is  there  a  translation  of  the  Bible  into  the  various  Indian 
languages? 

ANSWER:  No.  At  one  time  there  were  a  few  Gospels  published  in  the 
Maya  and  Tarasco.  Our  government  wants  to  educate  the  Indian  in  Spanish. 


Dr.  Osuna  resumed  answering  questions  as  follows: 

QUESTION:  Do  you  think  the  closing  of  the  churches  Sunday  will  re¬ 
sult  in  riots? 

ANSWER:  I  do  not.  There  may  be,  in  isolated  cases. 

QUESTION:  What  will  the  average  illiterate  Catholic  believe  about  the 
closing  of  churches? 

ANSWER:  He  will  blame  the  government.  He  has  been  taught  that,  in 
order  to  create  a  feeling  of  animosity  toward  the  government.  But  there  are 
many  Catholics  who  do  not  believe  all  that  the  priests  teach. 

QUESTION:  What  is  an  interdict? 

ANSWER:  The  Pope  suspends  all  religious  services.  It  means  that 

when  af  country  is  under  an  interdict,  no  rites  can  be  performed.  It  has  never 
been  used  effectively  in  Mexico. 


Mr.  Mendoza  later  dictated  a  supplementary  statement  for  inclusion  in 
the  records  of  the  group.  It  was  as  follows: 

The  most  common  obstacles  to  Christian  work  among  us  are  peculiar  to 
all  Roman  Catholic  countries  of  Spanish  origin :  superstition,  ignorance  and 
prejudice.  Of  course,  all  of  these  you  find  in  every  heathen  country,  but  the 
opposition  we  meet  in  every  Roman  Catholic  country  is  of  a  very  peculiar 
type,  especially  in  Mexico.  This  makes  our  work  show  rather  slow  results. 

Two  main  obstacles  we  find:  hfirst,  the  attitude  of  the  lower  classes. 
With  them  the  opposition  is  obstinate,  hard,  and  many  times,  due  to  the 
ignorance  and  bigotry  that  prevails  among  them,  their  opposition  takes  violent 
forms.  For  this  reason,  many  of  our  preachers  and  members  in  the  country 
are  giving  their  lives  for  their  new  faith.  Rom.an  Catholics  are  being  educated 

—20— 


in  a  school  of  hate  and  contempt  toward  anybody  who  doesn’t  believe  as  the 
Catholics  do,  and  they  cannot  find  a  more  unworthy  and  despicable  man  than 
a  Protestant.  The  Roman  Catholic  is  always  ready  to  believe  strange  stories 
about  Protestants  and  their  religious  meetings. 

The  opposition  among  the  higher  classes,  not  only  among  the  wealthy  but 
among  the  intellectual  takes  on  another  form:  indifference,  contempt,  and 
even  scorn.  We  have  not  been  able  to  reach  the  better  class,  not  for  lack  of 
definite  effort  or  for  lack  of  men  of  real  ability,  but  because  the  higher 
classes  are  full  of  prejudice  against  us,  like  the  common  people  but  for  entirely 
different  reasons.  To  the  better  classes,  the  Protestants  in  Mexico  deserve 
all  contempt  because  they  have  accepted  a  foreign  religion,  a  “made  in  the 
U.  S.”  religion,  leaving  off  the  religion  of  our  fathers,  the  “only”  church.  The 
national  pride  is  moreover  touched  when  they  assert  that  we  Protestant  people 
are  only  helping  to  carry  on  the  “pacific  conquest”  of  Mexico  by  Anglo-Saxons, 
that  we  are  traitors  to  the  home  land,  that  we  have  sold  ourselves  to  American 
gold.  Even  among  the  better  classes  it  is  accepted  as  a  fact  that  we  give 
money  to  every  convert,  that  the  American  missionary  goes  to  the  homes  of 
the  poor  people  with  pockets  full  of  money  for  distribution  among  the  families 
and  in  this  way  to  secure  new  converts  to  our  faith.  How  can  they  believe 
such  nonsense?  We  cannot  find  out.  This  is  .a  charge  made  against  Protestant 
missionaries  from  the  beginning  of  the  work  fifty  years  ago.  What  missionary 
society  could  be  rich  enough  to  give  away  thousands  of  dollars  to  thousands  of 
converts  in  Mexico  and  in  other  countries? 

Among  the  wealthy  and  the  intellectual  are  many  whom  we  count  as  our 
friends.  Visiting  the  United  States,  many  would  attend  Protestant  meetings 
and  even  be  known  as  Protestants,  but  in  Mexico  they  don’t  do  this  because 
they  would  lose  their  social  standing  in  uniting  with  the  Protestants.  Perhaps 
they  go  to  mass,  not  because  they  believe  in  Catholicism  but  because  of  social 
reasons,  to  escort  the  wife  and  the  daughter.  To  go  to  the  Protestants  would 
be  to  degrade  themselves.  They  are  like  Nicodemus,  friendly  and  appreciative 
in  private,  but  never  in  the  open.  They  praise  our  work  and  always  give  a 
good  word,  but  this  is  as  far  as  they  go. 

But  there  is  always  a  bright  side.  Though  the  higher  and  the  lower 
classes  find  it  very  difficult  to  accept  the  preaching  in  our  churches,  they  are 
ready  to  accept  the  teaching  in  our  schools.  Before  long  they  find  that  our 
schools  are  the  right  kind  for  their  children;  they  know  that  we  pay  first  atten¬ 
tion  to  the  training  of  character;  that  moral  education  is  outstanding  in  our 
work;  and  soon  the  most  prejudiced  goes  to  our  side  praising  our  schools  as 
the  very  best,  little  caring  about  our  singing  of  hymns,  prayers  and  religious 
meetings.  Our  schools  are  full  of  pupils,  every  place  being  taken  by  anxious 
students  who  afterward  become  our  most  effective  advertisers.  They  don’t 
take  time  to  explain  why  we  get  results  in  the  character  of  our  pupils;  they 
simply  recognize  the  fact  and  praise  and  support  our  schools.  At  the  end  we 
hope  that  our  schools  will  help  to  create  the  right  attitude  to  our  churches. 


IN  a  second  interview  with  Dr.  Osuna  August  4,  he  answered  questions  from 

the  group,  as  follows: 

QUESTION :  It  has  been  stated  that  the  Roman  Catholic  church  has  al¬ 
ways  had  a  great  influence  over  the  poorer  classes,  the  Indians.  Now  that  they 
shall  not  have  the  church  to  look  up  to,  is  there  anything  that  will  take  the 
place  of  the  church  as  a  guide  to  hold  these  poor  people? 

ANSWER:  The  Indian  has  not  been  helped  morally  by  the  church.  I 
know  towns  where  the  church  had  not  taught  them  anything.  They  did  not 
know  how  to  read  even  their  prayers.  The  church  certainly  has  not  given  them 


—21— 


any  moral  teaching.  Yes,  perhaps  they  are  very  devout.  There  are  pickpockets 
here  in  the  jails;  some  of  them  have  been  caught  ten,  fifteen  or  even  twenty 
times.  They,  too,  are  very  devout,  but  that  does  not  seem  to  stop  them  from 
stealing. 

The  Mexican  government  has  been  trying  to  teach  them  morals.  It  has 
provided  lectures  in  the  schools  and  everywhere  they  have  been  trying  to 
establish  moral  standards.  In  regard  to  the  building  up  of  the  Indians,  the 
government  is  establishing  schools  for  them  and  in  these  schools  morals  are 
taught.  How  much  has  the  teaching  of  the  church  helped  the  people?  From 
a  practical  point  of  view  the  teachings  of  the  church  have  not  helped  the  people. 
Another  thing  about  the  Indian  towns.  Most  of  them  are  independent  of  the 
church.  The  priests  go  there  once  a  year  only.  When  they  come  that  one  time 
they  baptize  babies,  confirm  children  and  marry  and  get  all  the  money  out 
of  them  they  can.  I  have  been  in  the  state  of  Oaxaca,  where  the  population  is 
mostly  Indian,  and  where  the  priests  only  come  once  a  year.  The  only  thing 
I  can  see  that  they  have  taught  them  real  well  is  to  be  hypocrites. 

QUESTION:  What  do  you  think  about  the  report  given  us  that  Calles  said 
that  he  had  met  Jesus  Christ  three  times  and  had  slapped  him  in  the  face  each 
time? 

ANSWER:  That  is  a  lie. 

QUESTION:  A  lady  said  it  had  been  reported  to  her  by  the  person  who 
had  heard  Calles  say  it. 

ANSWER:  Well,  I  do  not  believe  it.  I  think  it  is  only  another  one  of  the 
lies  that  are  told. 

QUESTION:  It  is  stated  that  neither  the  President  nor  any  of  the  members 
of  his  cabinet  are  Catholics. 

ANSWER:  If  they  state  that  not  a  single  member  of  the  cabinet  is  a 
Catholic,  that  also  is  not  true.  Mr.  Pani,  the  Minister  of  Finance,  is  a  Roman 
Catholic;  and  some  of  the  others  are  also  Catholics  that  I  know  personally. 
President  Calles  may  not  personally  be  connected  with  any  church,  but  all  of 
his  family  are  Roman  Catholics.  My  brother’s  family  are  close  friends  of 
Mr.  and  Mrs.  Calles  and  they  were  invited  last  Sunday  to  go  to  their  place  for 
luncheon  with  them.  My  sister-in-law  was  sick  and  she  and  my  brother  could 
not  go,  but  their  daughters,  my  nieces,  went  there.  One  of  the  President’s 
daughters  is  in  a  convent  near  Los  Angeles.  They  were  discussing  there  last 
Sunday  in  the  President’s  home  all  these  questions  of  the  day.  I  know  the 
families  of  many  of  the  other  cabinet  members  and  they  too  are  Catholics. 
The  wife  of  Mr.  Saenz  is  a  Catholic,  although  he  is  a  Protestant.  Many  of  the 
other  members  may  not  be  Catholics  themselves,  but  their  families  are  Catholics 
at  least. 

QUESTION:  Do  you  think  the  church  has  meant  nothing  to  the  millions 
of  Indians?  ^ 

ANSWER:  O,  yes,  it  has  been  a  tremendous  curse  to  them.  When  the 
Spaniards  came  here  there  were  about  18,000,000  people.  The  church  came  here 
and  was  entrusted  to  protect  the  lives  of  the  Indians;  then  the  population  was  re¬ 
duced  to  6,000,000.  They  will  not  admit  responsibility  for  the  killing  of  all  those 
millions.  But  they  certainly  helped.  The  Indians  died  by  the  millions  just  from 
exhaustion,  and  the  church  was  a  member  to  the  business.  As  for  education, 
they  had  all  the  money  they  wanted  and  all  the  propei’ty.  After  three  hundred 
years,  we  found  they  did  not  educate  quite  one  per  cent;  not  quite  one  per  cent 
could  read  and  write.  The  Catholic  Church  had  practically  abandoned  the  small 
Indian  villages,  so  you  can  see  how  much  they  were  doing  for  the  poor  Indians. 
What  do  you  think  about  this?  In  a  great  many  places,  owners  of  haciendas 
paid  the  priest  to  come  to  the  church  which  they  had  and  to  talk  to  these  peons 


—22— 


and  get  their  confessions.  When  these  poor  people  would  go  to  confession, 
they  would  tell  the  priest  whatever  they  had  done,  and  then  the  priest  informed 
the  master.  This  happened  all  over  the  country.  In  other  words,  the  church 
and  the  priest  was  used  to  exploit  the  people. 

QUESTION:  How  has  the  Catholic  church  mixed  in  politics? 

ANSWER:  In  many  instancs,  it  has  been  very  difficult  to  distinguish  the 
political  work  of  the  church  from  the  religious  work  of  the  church.  Granting 
that  they  did  not  go  into  Mexican  politics,  there  was  always  the  work  of  the 
church  in  politics.  Since  the  government  enacted  the  religious  laws,  they  have 
not  been  minding  the  government.  They  never  have  a  religious  meeting  with¬ 
out  discussing  politics.  I  was  in  the  second  city  of  the  Republic,  San  Luis 
Potosi,  a  little  less  than  three  years  ago.  After  I  had  been  there  a  few  days, 
I  was  told  by  a  friend  that  the  leading  Catholic  priest  in  that  city  was  going 
to  come  to  see  me.  He  came  to  see  me.  I  found  I  had  known  him  before.  We 
talked  about  different  things,  and  then  very  enthusiastically  and  very  plainly  he 
asked  me  if  I  could  not  do  something  to  help  the  church.  He  wondered  whether 
I  was  in  a  position  to  do  something.  He  wanted  me  to  call  on  the  archbishop. 
“Now,  let  me  tell  you,”  he  said,  “I  have  been  depending  upon  you  a  long 
time,  ever  since  we  had  that  Eucharistic  Congress,  how  to  get  a  public  man  into 
office  to  support  the  Roman  Catholic  Church.  We  have  discussed  the  matter. 
Many  thought  we  would  have  to  elect  a  man  who  was  a  member  of  the  church 
and  others  stated  that  we  would  just  have  to  elect  someone  independent  of  the 
church  and  others  thought  other  ways  and  then  I  arose  and  said  we  must  not 
try  to  put  a  Catholic  candidate  in.  With  a  candidate  who  is  not  a  Catholic 
the  President  will  give  us  more  attention  and  we  will  have  more  power.” 

QUESTION:  When  were  the  political  rights  withdrawn  from  the  priests 
and  why? 

ANSWER:  They  were  withdrawn  from  them  in  the  laws  of  reform  in 
1859  and  in  an  amendment  to  the  Constitution  in  1874.  Only  the  political 
rights  were  withdrawn;  they  could  hold  property  then.  The  priests  could  not 
be  elected  for  public  office.  And  all  other  ministers  of  churches  are  in  the  same 
position. 

QUESTION:  Why  was  that? 

ANSWER:  If  they  had  the  power  to  hold  office  and  to  legislate,  they 
might  do  almost  anything.  They  could  draw  groups  without  thought  of  the 
merits  of  the  candidates.  Therefore  the  priests  were  not  given  the  vote.  If  the 
priests  had  the  vote,  there  would  be  no  freedom.  If  these  priests  had  the  vote 
and  could  govern  all  these  people  under  them,  there  would  be  no  democracy 
in  a  short  time  at  all.  You  see  they  might  use  their  influence,  and  that  was 
the  idea  of  it. 

QUESTION:  Are  Protestant  ministers  in  the  same  condition? 

ANSWER:  Yes. 

QUESTION:  If  the  Protestant  ministers  are  registered  and  conform  to  the 
laws,  why  don’t  the  Catholic  priests  do  it?  The  Archbishop  stated  that  because 
the  laws  had  never  recognized  these  priests  as  citizens,  they  could  not  now 
register? 

ANSWER:  That  is  a  very  crude  excuse ;  nobody  believes  that.  No  foreign¬ 
er  here  can  be  elected  to  fill  any  office;  and  if  elected  he  could  not  fill  the 
office.  But  does  that  mean  foreigners  cannot  obey  the  laws  and  be  submissive 
to  the  laws? 

QUESTION:  How  is  the  Constitution  amended? 

ANSWER:  The  Constitution  is  amended  by  Congress,  with  either  the 
President  or  any  one  of  the  congressmen  introducing  the  bill  into  Congress. 
Then  it  goes  to  the  senate,  it  is  referred  to  the  legal  committee  for  .study,  it  is 


—23— 


again  referred  to  the  senate  where  it  has  to  be  passed  by  a  ceutain  majority, 
and  then  it  has  to  be  ratified  as  well  by  a  certain  majority  of  the  lower  house. 

QUESTION:  Have  there  been  any  amendments? 

ANSWER:  Yes,  one  since  the  new  Constitution  was  enacted. 

QUESTION:  We  were  told  that  the  government  has  been  doing  every¬ 
thing  it  could  to  injure  the  church. 

ANSWER:  I  am  sorry  Catholics  have  been  taught  to  lie  on  religious 
subjects. 

QUESTION:  It  is  further  stated  that  the  leaders  defending  the  church, 
without  having  committed  any  offenses  whatsoever,  except  that  they  were 
attempting  to  defend  the  church,  have  been  imprisoned,  attacked,  and  treated 
in  a  shameless  manner. 

ANSWER:  That  is  not  true;  they  are  only  lying.  The  main  leaders  work¬ 
ing  for  the  church  were  all  from  the  Society  for  the  Defense  of  Religious 
Freedom.  They  were  organized  to  work  for  the  defense  of  the  church,  but 
that  was  not  all  that  they  did.  They  had  been  working  for  the  overthrow  of  the 
national  government.  What  they  had  been  doing  was  getting  out  circulars  to 
the  people,  telling  them  not  to  obey  the  law  and  to  paralyze  economic  life. 

QUESTION:  Is  it  true  that  a  priest  as  a  private  individual  may  not  hold 
property? 

ANSWER:  That  is  true;  nor  may  he  inherit  property  from  anybody,  he 
cannot  be  assigned  as  an  heir.  He  cannot  have  property  of  any  kind. 

QUESTION:  We  understood  this  morning  that  the  church  had  not  been  in 
politics  for  many  years.  Is  thati  true?  And  that  they  had  no  property? 

ANSWER:  Theoretically  so.  As  an  organization  the  church  has  not  been. 
But  they  have  an  organization  that  is  under  the  direct  control  of  Archbishop 
Mora  y  del  Rio  in  which  he  has  continually  attempted  to  dictate  and  to  meddle 
in  the  politics  of  the  country.  I  can  give  you  the  reasons  I  know  it.  During 
the  last  of  Carranza’s  administration  they  organized.  They  worked  very  hard 
for  Bonillas,  to  be  president  of  Mexico.  I  was  elected  on  the  executive  commit¬ 
tee  at  that  time.  I  had  private  advice  that  Archbishop  Mora  y  del  Rio  was 
very  anxious  to  talk  with  me  and  other  members  of  the  committee  about  cer¬ 
tain,  matters  in  regard  to  the  Catholic  church.  We  were  asked  to  come  to  the 
headquarters  of  this  organization.  I  was  one  of  a  sub-committee  appointed  to 
call  on  the  President  at  that  time  concerning  the  political  request  of  the 
Archbishop. 

QUESTION:  Tell  us  briefly  what  different  parties  there  are  in  the 

Chamber  of  Deputies? 

ANSWER:  There  is  the  labor  party,  which  is  very  strong,  and  then  there 
is  what  is  called  the  Liberals.  There  are  the  agrarians,  and  they  make  a  big 
group  but  they  are  not  one  of  the  political  parties.  We  organize  committees 
that  work  in  different  parts  of  the  country  for  one  candidate  or  the  other. 
They  will  probably  have  hundreds  of  these  committees  all  over  the  country. 

QUESTION:  How  do  the  conservative  elements  work;  where  the  radical; 
are  they  in  harmony  sometimes? 

ANSWER:  They  work  in  these  various  committees  all  over  the  country 
for  the  different  candidates,  according  to  the  candidate  they  represent. 

QUESTION:  What  was  that  party  the  Catholic  church  organized  to  com¬ 
bat  the  agrarian  movement?, 

ANSWER:  I  don’t  remember;  they  are  very  active  in  certain  states. 

QUESTION:  Wasn’t  there  an  organization  by  the  owners  of  the  land 
against  this  agrarian  movement? 

ANSWER:  Yes,  there  was  an  organization  of  the  hacendados  to  combat 
the  agrarian  movement,  about  five  years  ago.  Mr.  de  la  Huerta’s  revolutionary 


— 24— 


movement  was  backed  by  the  church,  that  is,  by  the  clerical  element;  and  in  a 
great  many  of  the  previous  disorders  like  when  Villa  was  active.  He  got  up  some 
of  these  movements  and  was  backed  by  the  church.  The  church  was  only  trying 
to  overthrow  the  government.  They  used  their  influence  against  these  reforms 
and  advancs  in  radicalism. 

QUESTION:  I  understand  by  the  American  vice  consul  here  that  the 
President  can  be  practically  a  dictator;  that  he  can  act  as  if  there  were  neither 
a  congress  nor  a  constitution  in  existence. 

ANSWER:  There  is  a  misunderstanding  by  the  commercial  attache.  I 
studied  political  economy  and  economics  at  Vanderbilt  University.  Before  estab¬ 
lishing  the  new  government  here  there  was  a  great  deal  of  talk  in  regard  to 
reform  of  the  tax  system.  They  wanted  to  change  the  whole  system  of  taxation. 
There  could  not  be  found  a  ma  nat  the  time  in  the  whole  congress  who  could 
draft  this  matter  and  discuss  the  situation  intelligently.  They  didn’t  have  the 
experts  who  could  plan  and  take  charge  of  it,  so  the  only  solution  was  to 
authorize  the  President  to  study  the  system,  to  get  experts  who  could  plan  and 
recommend  a  system  and  make  the  necessary  changes  in  what  they  already  had. 
Congress  just  authorized  the  president  to  put  this  matter  through  by  these 
experts.  Even  today  in  this  work  they  have  two  or  three  experts  here.  They 
are  Americans.  At  least,  I  know  two  or  three  who  are  Americans.  They  are 
preparing  these  budgets  for  the  government  and  then  working  out  the  whole 
system.  The  government  finds  it  easier  to  do  the  work  in  this  way  than  in  any 
other,  as  they  have  no  experts  who  can  do  it.  When  the  whole  matter  is  studied 
out  the  president  approves  the  report  and  then  reports  the  whole  thing  to  the 
congress.  Congress  has  the  power  to  approve  all  this,  but  since  they  do  not 
have  the  experts  to  look  after  this  work,  it  is  turned  over  to  the  president. 
The  president  has  that  power  on  account  of  the  present  conditions  of  the 
country.  For  instance,  the  income  on  oil.  We  have  coming  in  some  thirty 
millions  from  that  alone  and  so  we  need  experts  to  study  that  matter  and  de¬ 
cide  abou*t  the  taxation.  In  regard  to  other  laws,  congress  had  many  plans, 
drafts,  and  laws  ready  for  discussion.  I  don’t  know  whether  you  know  any¬ 
thing  about  the  Latin  mind.  We  have,  say,  260  congressmen  and  probably  400 
articles  to  be  passed.  Well,  they  read  number  one  and  all  of  these  men  have 
to  make  speeches.  They  try  for  three  months  to  make  speeches  on  these 
different  laws  and  then  finally  they  just  authorize  the  president  to  pass  these 
laws.  The  president  then  has  to  report  to  the  chamber;  he  has  to  report  any 
addition  or  change  he  has  made  to  the  penal  code. 

QUESTION:  Does  the  budget  have  to  be  approved  by  congress  before 
going  into  effect?  Has  there  been  any  case  when  a  congress  has  exercised  a 
veto  on  the  will  of  the  president? 

ANSWER:  The  budget  has  to  be  approved.  There  have  never  been  any 
repudiations.  They  have  always  approved  the  powers  of  the  president.  This 
is  my  own  personal  opinion.  I  know  the  conditions  here.  I  am  not  in  politics, 
but  I  think  it  is  a  thousand  times  better  that  the  president  do  this  work. 

QUESTION :  In  regard  to  employment  in  Mexico,  how  about  the  discharg¬ 
ing  of  an  employee  without  giving  notice?  Does  an  employer  have  to  give 
notice,  does  he  have  to  pay  the  employee  three  months’  wages?  Why  doesn’t 
the  government  have  to  pay  three  months’  wages  when  discharging  an 
employee? 

ANSWER:  I  am  a  member  of  the  Association  of  Printers  of  Mexico 
City,  a  member  of  the  executive  committee  and  chairman  of  the  labor  commit¬ 
tee.  I  have  to  state  that  almost  every  night  we  have  to  meet  in  order  to 
take  up  the  disagreements  presentd  to  us.  After  hearing  all  the  facts  in  the 
case,  the  committee  then  decides  the  questions,  and  whenever  a  working  man  has 


—25— 


been  dismissed  for  a  just  cause,  we  do  not  pay  him  his  three  months’  wages. 
But  some  of  these,  of  course,  really  have  just  cause.  We  do  not  pay  the 
three  months’  wages  when  a  man  is  dismissed  for  bad  conduct;  whenever  the 
man  can  prove  that  there  is  not  just  cause  then  we  do  have  to  pay  the  three 
months. 


In  a  third  interview  with  Dr.  Osuna  August  6,  he  spoke  as  follows: 

After  the  struggle  between  the  church  and  the  state  started  here  by  the 
Constitution  of  1857  and  the  Refonn  Laws  of  1859,  the  government  passed 
laws  restricting  the  activities  of  the  church  and  declaring  some  principles:  the 
submission  of  the  church  to  the  authority  of  the  state;  liberty  of  education; 
liberty  of  the  press;  liberty  to  worship.  The  church  did  not  accept  these  prin¬ 
ciples  because  it  has  been  uniformly  opposed  to  all  these  principles.  They 
undertook  the  obligation  to  fight  these  principles.  The  government  started 
schools,  but  they  were  opposed  by  the  church.  In  these  schools,  they  tried  to 
teach  these  principles.  The  church  has  been  trying  to  control  all  this  work 
throughout  the  country.  When  I  was  at  the  head  of  the  schools  here  in 
Mexico  City,  there  was  brought  to  my  attention  some  text  books  published  and 
taught  by  the  church  in  which  the  church  was  systematically  teaching  the 
young  against  these  principles,  an  action  decidedly  hostile. 

That  was  from  1915  to  1918.  We  at  once  required  them  to  change  the 
text  books.  But  the  government  had  seen  that  the  only  way  to  control  the 
situation  was  to  stop  religious  instruction  in  the  primary  schools,  because  in 
this  instruction  these  principles  were  neglected.  Why  this  antagonism  to  reli¬ 
gious  instruction?  Well,  because,  the  Catholic  Church  simply  wouldn’t  mind 
the  government.  I  have  kept  my  boys  in  the  public  schools.  I  have  never 
found  these  public  schools  were  detrimental  to  them.  The  outcome  of  the 
work  shows  that  they  were  very  much  benefitted.  Later  my  oldest  boy  was 
in  the  School  of  Engineering.  ,  There  were  only  thirty  boys  in  his  course,  and 
only  three  boys  of  the  thirty  passed.  My  boy  was  one  of  the  three  who  passed- 
My  boy  finished  and  gained  the  most  responsible  position  they  had  vacant. 
He  never  made  very  high  grades.  In  fact,  he  made  rather  low  grades.  To 
me,  it  is  only  a  question  of  character.  Well,  the  question  is,  have  the  Catholics 
as  good  as  we  have?  The  law  now  is  that  no  religion  shall  be  taught  in  the 
primary  schools.  I  think  this  was  needed.  I  have  evidence  of  this.  There  are 
a  great  many  Catholic  teachers  in  the  public  schools,  probably  90  per  cent. 
They  have  always  shown  a  disposition  to  spoil  anything  for  the  government. 
Many  teachers  do  not  care  to  nor  will  they  teach  effectively  what  they  should 
do,  because  they  think  they  will  be  doing  something  against  the  church.  Ac¬ 
cording  to  the  law,  no  one  in  the  first  six  years  in  our  public  schools  may  be 
taught  religion.  That  is  a  mistake,  for  I  think  the  most  critical  period  of  life 
is  around  12  to  16  or  17  years  of  age. 

As  for  the  number  of  Catholic  schools  you  have  asked  me  about,  the 
government  has  established  three  thousand  schools,  I  believe,  within  the  last 
two  or  three  years;  of  course  many  of  them  are  only  one  teacher  schools,  but 
they  are  schools.  Now,  about  these  Catholic  schools,  they  claimed  they  had  a 
great  many  all  over  the  country,  but  when  the  government  tried  to  find  some 
of  them  they  told  about,  they  could  not  find  them.  I  have  travelled  a  great 
deal  all  over  the  country.  The  teachers  in  the  public  schools  at  first  were  not 
as  good  as  your  teachers  in  the  states,  but  they  are  better  every  year  because 
the  government  is  training  more  teachers  and  sending  them  out  to  teach  these 
schools;  and  the  old  teachers  are  also  getting  more  training.  But  it  is  very 
hard  to  get  trained  teachers.  The  schools  are  running  though. 

I  travelled  Jn  several  sections  of  the  country  just  to  see  these  public 


schools  two  years  ago.  I  found  in  some  of  those  places  very  good  schools 
indeed.  Many  persons  are  ready  to  make  statements,  but  they  haven’t  seen 
anything.  I  can  be  positive  of  everything,  about  everything  that  I  saw  and 
have  reported  in  regard  to  the  schools.  It  is  true  that  there  are  many  draw¬ 
backs.  I  do  not  agree  with  everything  they  are  doing,  that  is,  with  their 
methods. 

QUESTION:  Are  there  not  teachers  sent  out  to  these  different  places 
to  help  the  country  teachers  with  their  problems  and  to  improve  conditions? 

ANSWER:  The  traveling  teachers,  yes.  They  started  that  some  three  or 
four  years  ago,  sending  teachers  specially  prepared  to  help  country  teachers, 
sending  them  from  place  to  place.  They  now  send  out  a  group  of  teachers 
which  goes  from  place  to  place  to  the  small  schools  to  help  the  teachers  to  get 
in  touch  with  the  parents  and  to  teach  the  local  teachers  how  to  do  the  many 
things  they  should  do  in  their  schools.  There  are  generally  about  five  in  a 
group.  One  is  an  expert  on  social  work;  another  is  a  specialist  on  agriculture; 
another  is  sent  to  teach  the  women  and  the  girls  how  to  take  care  of  their 
homes  and  their  children.  They  come  to  a  town  or  a  small  place.  They  call 
all  the  teachers  together  they  can  reach  from  that  town;  they  give  their  talks 
and  illustrate  their  work  and  teach  and  show  them  ever3rthing  they  can.  How 
long  do  they  stay  in  a  place?  That  depends  upon  how  many  teachers  they 
can  get  together  in  that  place,  according  to  the  size  of  the  place  too,  but  they 
usually  stay  at  least  six  weeks  in  a  place. 

I  know  all  this  because  I  had  a  girl  in  the  office  of  the  publishing  company. 
She  belonged  to  one  of  the  Protestant  churches  of  the  city.  I  found  out  one 
day  she  had  been  engaged  to  go  with  one  of  these  groups.  I  then  began  to 
inquire  what  kind  of  work  they  did  in  these  groups  so  as  to  learn  what  benefit 
it  was.  Each  one  has  some  special  thing  to  teach.  This  girl  was  going  for  the 
social  work.  That  is  the  system  of  these  traveling  teachers. 

QUESTION:  Do  you  have  anything  like  parent-teachers  associations  in 
Mexico? 

ANSWER:  They  have  been  organizing  them  in  all  these  local  centers. 

QUESTION:  I  gather  from  the  American  Ambassador  that  foreigners 
owning  land  along  the  border  will  have  to  dispose  of  it  the  best  they  can,  re¬ 
gardless  of  what  anyone  may  choose  to  offer  for  it. 

ANSWER:  The  law  is  that  within  an  area  of  sixty-two  miles  of  the 
border  and  thirty-miles  along  the  sea  coast  no  foreigner  can  own  land.  Any¬ 
one  owning  land  within  those  areas  will  be  allowed  to  keep  it  until  their  death; 
then  the  heirs  must  dispose  of  it  at  the  death  of  the  person  who  has  had  this 
land.  Corporations  are  allowed  to  hold  their  lands  in  these  areas  for  their 
life-time  in  Mexico. 

QUESTION:  Suppose  there  is  no  market  for  that  land,  as  is  said  to  be 
true  in  many  cases.  For  instance,  there  is  Mr.  Hearst’s  lands. 

ANSWER:  Well,  they  take  their  own  chances.  Now,  Mr.  Hearst  never 
intended  to  cultivate  his  land  here.  He  made  his  investment  and  he  should 
have  seen  to  that.  Of  course,  if  he  could  not  sell,  there  would  not  be  any 
difficulties  necessarily;  it  would  be  im.possible  to  take  his  holdings  if  he  had 
complied  with  the  law;  but  if  he  could  not  sell  his  land,  then  there  would  be  a 
claims  commission  appointed  to  take  care  of  this  matter.  There  was  another 
case  where  the  government  knew  there  would  be  considerable  trouble  and  the 
government  bought  the  lands  from  him.  I  think  they  will  easily  handle  Mr. 
Hearst.  They  will  probably  handle  him  in  the  same  way.  If  he  makes  an 
estimate  of  what  he  paid  for  it,  the  government  will  have  to  pay  very  little. 
The  government  may  base  the  price  for  the  land  on  the  value  of  the  land  as 
they  estimate  it  for  taxation. 


—27— 


As  I  was  saying,  the  government  pays  for  these  lands  at  the  value  which 
the  owner  places  on  it  for  taxation,  plus  10  per  cent. 

QUESTION:  How  long  may  the  owner  hold  this  land? 

ANSWER:  As  a  private  individual,  he  may  hold  it  until  he  goes  to  heaven. 

QUESTION:  We  understand  that  if  the  owner  cannot  find  a  buyer,  the 
government  may  place  a  value  on  the  land  and  acquire  it. 

ANSWER:  No,  no  one  may,  only  as  I  said  before. 

QUESTION:  Where  can  the  exchange  of  correspondence  between  the 
United  States  and  Mexico  be  found,  in  regard  to  this  matter? 

ANSWER:  Mr.  Guy  Stevens,  in  the  Mexican  Embassy  in  Washington,  keeps 
full  memoranda  in  English. 

QUESTION:  How  about  damage  claims  made  against  Mexico? 

ANSWER:  Mr.  Oliver,  a  man  who  had  a  contract  with  the  railroads  here, 
presented  a  claim  in  the  American  courts  for  three  million  dollars.  He  did  not 
wait  for  it  to  be  adjusted  by  the  claims  commission  nor  to  receive  justice  here, 
but  pushed  it  in  the  American  courts.  I  understand  that  he  offered  to  accept 
three  hundred  thousand  and  without  any  of  the  expenses  he  had  paid.  That  is, 
he  offered  to  accept  one-tenth  of  what  he  was  claiming.  That  will  give  you  an 
idea  of  these  claims.  I  have  also  known  of  cases  where  they  were  asking  for 
two  million  dollars,  and  when  they  came  to  settle  they  agreed  on  two  or  three 
thousand  dollars.  Very  interesting  cases  some  of  these. 

QUESTION:  How  about  Mrs.  Evans’  property? 

ANSWER:  I  don’t  know  much  about  that  case.  I  know  that  she  didn’t 
want  to  leave  there;  they  had  told  her  it  was  not  safe.  I  think  she  took  too 
many  risks  when  it  was  unsafe  there  for  her  and  she  had  been  warned  not  to 
Stay  there. 

QUESTION :  Is  there  any  truth  to  a  statement  in  a  newspaper  that  to 
avoid  conscription,  Mexicans  become  rebel  leaders  for  awhile? 

ANSWER:  Military  service  is  voluntary  and  subject  to  contract.  The 
Federal  Government  makes  contracts  and  it  is  entirely  voluntary. 

QUESTION:  Would  it  compare  with  what  we  have  in  the  United  States? 

ANSWER:  I  guess  so.  In  fact  they  pay  and  do  now  very  similarly  to  what 
they  do  in  the  United  States. 

QUESTION:  What  was  your  experience  as  Governor  of  Tamaulipas  with 
the  oil  companies? 

ANSWER:  In  General  Diaz’s  administration,  he  was  in  favor  of  the 

capitalists  and  they  did  not  pay  any  tax  to  speak  of.  Now,  when  they  have  to 
pay  taxes,  they  are  complaining  about  it.  When  I  went  to  Tamaulipas  as 
governor,  we  needed  money  and  I  instructed  the  collector  to  get  to  work.  There 
were  in  that  state  at  that  time  some  big  oil  companies.  There  were  about  four 
of  them,  and  they  had  not  been  paying  taxes.  I  demanded  taxes  and  they 
refused.  In  one  case  we  had  to  take  the  property  of  one  of  those  big  companies. 

QUESTION:  But  it  is  said  your  taxes  are  excessive,  altogether  excessive. 

ANSWER:  That  was  the  very  argument  these  oil  companies  made.  They 
said,  “Your  taxes  are  excessive  and  we  cannot  afford  to  pay  them.”  I  said 
to  all  the  managers  of  the  oil  companies,  “You  select  an  expert  and  I  will  se'ect 
another  one  in  behalf  of  the  state  and  the  state  will  pay  all  the  expenses  of  the 
two  men  to  go  to  the  United  States  to  investigate  similar  taxes  in  the  United 
States.  After  they  have  come  back  from  their  investigation,  I  will  establish 
the  lowest  rate  of  taxation  they  find  in  the  United  States.”  But  the  oil  com¬ 
panies  didn’t  want  to  do  that,  and  then  they  agreed  to  pay  the  rate  of  taxation 
which  we  agreed  upon. 


—28 


views  of  the  Roman  Catholic 

Hierarchy 

The  group  had  the  privilege  of  submitting  a  list  of  written  questions  to  the 
Council  of  Roman  Catholic  bishops,  through  Bishop  Pasqual  Diaz,  secretary 
of  the  Mexican  episcopate  and  spokesman  for  Archbishop  Mora  y  del.  Rio  dur¬ 
ing  his  illness.  The  questions  were  submitted  in  person  by  a  small  sub-commit¬ 
tee  of  the  group  on  August  6.  Following  an  interview  with  Bishop  Diaz,  of 
Tabasco,  written  answers  to  the  questions  were  given. 

QUESTION:  In  what  respect  do  the  “anti-religious  clauses”  of  the  Con¬ 
stitution  make  the  existence  of  the  Church  impossible? 

ANSWER:  In  that  the  Constitution  assails  the  divine  origin  of  the  church, 
its  object,  its  ministers  and  properties,  as  well  as  the  means  which  the  church 
uses  in  every  civilized  country  for  its  maintenance  and  growth. 

The  judicial  function  of  the  churches  is  explicitly  denied;  and  the  federal 
authorities  are  authorized  to  intervene,  as  designated  by  the  laws  (Art.  130), 
in  the  worship  and  in  church  discipline. 

The  priests  are  not  considered  as  such,  but  as  ordinary  professionals  (Art. 
130)  and  are  not  given  the  consideration  accorded  to  the  members  of  other 
professions. 

They  are  required  to  be  Mexicans  by  birth  (Art.  130). 

The  State  legislatures  are  authorized  to  determine  their  maximum  number 
(Art.  130). 

They  are  prohibited:  To  exercise  their  political  rights  (Arts.  82,  55,  59, 
130);  To  exercise  their  ordinary  civil  rights  (Arts.  3,  27,  130). 

Ownership  of  property  by  the  church  and  its  ministers  is  prohibited  in  re¬ 
gard  to  churches  (Arts.  27,  130),  residences  of  bishops  and  curates,  seminaries, 
asylums,  colleges,  religious  houses,  institutions  of  private  charity  ...... 

(Art.  27). 

Ministers  are  prevented  from  inheriting  property  even  from  individuals 
if  the  latter  are  not  close  relatives  (Art.  130). 

The  church  is  incapacitated  in  general  from  exercising  any  ownership 
whatever  over  real  estate  or  any  capital  invested  in  buildings  thereon  (Art. 
27). 

All  property  which  the  church  now  actually  owns  or  is  possessed  of  in  the 
name  of  an  intermediary  is  ordered  to  pass  to  the  national  domain;  and  legal 
action  of  denouncement  is  authorized  in  regard  to  the  properties  thus  made 
available,  proof  of  presumption  being  sufficient  for  founding  the  denounce¬ 
ment  (Art.  27). 

From  the  above  it  is  seen  that  the  church  is  denied  the  rights  which 
civilization  and  nature  itself  grants  to  all  human  society  above  the  rank  of 
savages. 

QUESTION:  From  the  letter  of  the  Archbishop  we  understand  that  cer¬ 
tain  acts  ordered  by  God  are  made  criminal  by  the  law  (of  July  2).  What 
are  these  acts? 

ANSWER:  The  fulfillment  of  religious  votive  offerings,  obligatory  by  the 
law  of  God,  to  whom  they  are  dutifully  made. 

Public  ownership,  approved  by  God,  and  at  times  ordered  by  HIM. 
Religious  education,  or  the  duty  of  parents  to  teach  their  children,  as 
soon  as  they  reach  the  age  of  reason,  of  the  existence  of  God,  the  truths  of  the 
Catholic  faith  and  the  Christian  dogma  and  morality. 


29 — 


Also  God  had  ordained  that  the  vocations  of  religious  professions  in¬ 
spired  by  God  shall  be  fostered  with  prudence  and  gentleness. 

The  obligation  to  recognize  the  right  of  ownership  in  anyone  who  owns 
property,  as  that  of  the  church  to  the  property  which  the  people  have  given  to 
the  church  and  not  to  the  Nation. 

Thus,  in  various  ways  but  very  clearly,  all  these  acts  are  considered  as 
crimes  and  made  punishable  as  such. 

QUESTION:  What  is  the  status  of  the  present  political  leaders?  Have 
they  been  excommunicated? 

ANSWEE:  The  Mexican  Archbishop  has  not  issued  any  special  excom¬ 
munication  whatever  in  addition  to  those  already  indicated  for  all  the  world 
by  the  general  canonical  law.  The  only  thing  that  has  been  done  is  the  publi¬ 
cation  anew  of  some  of  them  in  the  final  part  of  the  collective  pastoral  letter 
of  July  25,  1926.  In  virtue  of  these,  as  may  easily  be  understood,  various 
persons  referred  to  in  the  questionnaire  certainly  have  incurred  excom¬ 
munication. 

QUESTION:  Are  the  children  of  Catholics  forbidden  by  the  church  to  at¬ 
tend  the  public  schools? 

ANSWER:  The  Bishops  have  recorded  Canon  No.  2319,  paragraph  4, 
which  reads:  Parents,  or  those  acting  in  their  stead,  who  knowingly  cause 
their  children  to  be  instructed  or  educated  in  a  religion  other  than  the  Catholic 
incur  excommunication  subject  to  the  decision  of  the  Bishop. 

If  in  this  manner  a  public  or  private  school  is  known  to  be  the  cause  of 
the  moral  or  religious  perversion  of  a  child,  the  ecclesiastical  ag  well  as  the 
natural  law  prohibits  attendance  at  such  a  school,  the  same  in  Mexico  as  in 
any  part  of  the  world. 

QUESTION:  How  many  church  schools  were  closed,  and  how  many 

children  were  thereby  deprived  of  educational  facilities? 

ANSWER:  By  the  dispersion  of  the  proper  personnel,  approximately 

fifty  schools  have  been  closed,  with  an  average  attendance  of  160  pupils  in 
each  one.  But  there  is  a  well  formed  threat  to  close  all  the  Catholic  schools 
in  the  republic,  affecting  about  2,000,000  children. 

The  mere  temporary  suspension  was  caused  by  the  discussion  of  the  law 
which  is  now  being  examined,  and  although  the  schools  now  continue  open, 
nevertheless  they  will  have  to  be  closed  if  the  government  takes  action  which 
the  church  cannot  submit  to. 

QUESTION:  What  is  the  extent  of  property  confiscated? 

ANSWER:  Virtually  all  the  church  property  is  confiscated,  and  the 

amount  can  be  learned  from  what  is  called  the  Office  of  National  Properties 
(Bienes  Macionales).  The  law  of  July  2  in  article  22  provides: 

“The  churches  intended  for  public  worship  are  the  property  of  the 
nation,  represented  by  the  federal  government,  which  will  determine  those  to 
be  continued  for  this  purpose.” 

VThe  homes  of  the  Bishops  and  curates,  seminaries,  asylums  or  colleges 
of  religious  associations,  convents  or  any  other  building  which  may  have 
been  built  or  intended  for  the  administration,  propaganda  or  instruction  of  a 
religious  cult  will  immediately  pass  in  full  right  to  the  direct  ownership  of  the 
nation,  to  be  assigned  exclusively  to  public  uses  of  the  Federation  or  the 
States  in  their  respective  jurisdictions.” 

“Persons  who  destroy,  injure  or  cause  damage  to  the  said  buildings  will 
be  punished  with  one  or  two  years  imprisonment  and  will  be  subject  to  the 
civic  penalties  which  they  incur.” 

QUESTION:  What  redress  has  the  Catholic  church?  What  is  the  con- 


—30— 


stitutional  method  by  which  Catholic  citizens  can  bring  about  a  change  in  the 
regulations? 

ANSWER:  The  remedy  with  respect  to  the  regulation  will  be  to  make 
the  President  see  that  he  has  exceeded  his  authority,  as  is  the  unanimous  opin¬ 
ion  of  many  authorities  on  jurisprudence,  non-Catholic  as  well  as  Catholic. 
Fundamentally,  by  amending  the  Constitution  in  the  manner  which  the  Con¬ 
stitution  itself  provides.  With  respect  to  other  means  adopted  by  secular 
persons  and  societies,  the  church  must  confine  itself,  if  asked,  to  stating 
whether  or  not  these  are  just. 

QUESTION:  How  many  priests  and  nuns  were  deported? 

ANSWER:  Due  to  the  difficulty  and  insecurity  of  correspondence  which 
has  become  notorious  during  this  persecution,  it  is  difficult  to  give  a  complete 
statement.  However,  it  is  calculated  that  more  than  300  foreign  priests  have 
been  deported.  With  respect  to  the  nuns,  only  thirty  have  been  expelled,  who 
belonged  to  the  American  convent  of  the  “Visitation”,  but  more  than  500  from 
various  religious  institutions  have  been  put  to  the  necessity  of  leaving  the 
country  and  their  work  of  teaching  or  of  charity  which  they  directed. 

QUESTION:  How  many  priests,  nuns  and  laymen  have  been  imprisoned? 

ANSWER:  Two  Bishops,  those  of  Huejutla  and  Tacambaro;  two  or  three 
priests;  no  nuns;  and  many  laymen,  although  these  have  now  been  released 
on  bail. 

QUESTION:  Why  did  the  Catholic  church  feel  that  its  priests  should 
not  obey  the  law  for  registration? 

ANSWER:  Because  by  Article  130,  in  registering  as  “responsible  under 
civil  authority  for  the  fulfillment  of  the  laws  regarding  religious  discipline  and 
religious  objects  pertaining  to  worship”,  it  would  result  in  subordinating  their 
ministration  and  the  property  of  the  church  to  the  secular  authorities,  which 
is  clearly  contrary  to  the  divine  constitution  of  the  church,  its  recognized 
rights  and  its  dignity. 

QUESTION:  How  is  it  possible  for  the  church  to  function  under  the 
present  regulations? 

ANSWER:  The  church  cannot  function,  as  no  organization  can  function, 
when  it  is  deprived  of  its  temporal  means,  of  the  most  essential  members  of 
its  organization,  and  even  of  the  common  rights  of  every  citizen — of  liberty  of 
the  press,  of  “manifestaciones”  (writs  resembling  habeous  corpus)  and  even 
of  making  complaints. 

The  sub-committee  which  interviewed  Bishop  Diaz  also  interviewed  a  group 
of  five  Catholic  ladies,  two  of  them  Americans.  The  interview  was  on  August 
3  in  the  home  of  one  of  the  ladies,  who  will  be  designated  as  Mrs.  B.  The 
following  report  of  the  interview  was  prepared  by  Dr.  Sidney  L.  Gulick: 

"  Mrs.  B.  was  asked  regarding  the  exact  reason  v/hy  the  ecclesiastical 
authorities  would  not  permit  the  clergy  to  register  with  the  government  in 
accord  with  its  requirements.  In  reply  she  made  the  statement  that  the  Con¬ 
stitution  of  1857  denied  civil  status  to  the  clergy  and  that,  therefore,  it  would 
be  unconstitutional  for  them  to  register  themselves  as  priests. 

It  was  evident  from  the  earnestness  of  the  ladies  that  they  were  very  de¬ 
vout  and  sincere  Catholics  and  had  accepted  very  completely  the  explanations 
given  them  by  the  priests  in  regard  to  the  present  situation.  They  dwelt  at 
length  on  the  severity  of  the  persecutions,  as  they  regarded  the  requirements 
of  the  government,  and  cited  details  of  harshness  on  the  part  of  the  adminis¬ 
tration  and  soldiers  in  closing  convents  and  enforcing  the  law.  They  evidently 
were  convinced  that  the  primary  purpose  of  the  government  was  to  destroy 
the  church. 

An  instance  was  cited  of  a  case  in  which  the  deputy  entei^ed  a  village 


—31— 


church  at  the  time  of  mass  and  proceeded  to  break  up  the  service  and  close 
the  church.  This  brutal  act  aroused  the  congregation  and  precipitated  a  riot 
in  which  the  deputy  was  killed.  The  government  promptly  tried  to  find  the 
murderers.  Failing  in  this  respect,  all  the  principal  men  of  the  village  were 
hanged  to  a  single  tree.  The  photograph  of  these  men  hanging  to  a  tree  was 
shown  us.  Mrs.  B.  also  gave  us  a  number  of  documents,  giving  details  of  her 
own  experiences  and  those  of  others  in  connection  with  the  events  of  the 
past  months. 

She  told  us  of  a  conversation  in  which  President  Calles  stated  that  he  had 
met  Jesus  Christ  three  times  and  had  slapped  him  in  the  face.  Being  ques¬ 
tioned  regarding  this  extraordinary  statement,  she  stated  that  the  conversa¬ 
tion  had  been  reported  to  her  by  a  person  who  had  heard  it  herself. 

The  above  statements  were  made  to  us  with  the  explicit  understanding 
‘  that  we  were  not  to  use  any  names  in  reporting  the  interview. 


The  Independent  Catholic 

Church 

The  most  Reverend  Jose  Joaquin  Perez,  patriarch  of  the  Independent 
Mexican  Catholic  Church,  popularly  designated  as  the  “Schismaticos”, 
received  the  group  for  an  interview  in  the  church  in  which  he  officiates,  just 
across  the  avenue  from  the  monument  to  Benito  Juarez. 

Father  Perez  spoke  as  follows: 

About  thirty  years  ago  there  came  a  papal  representative  to  Mexico,  while 
I  was  in  a  little  town  called  San  Juan.  Having  seen  the  extreme  poverty  of 
the  people  and  realizing  how  great  was  the  burden  of  the  expense  of  the 
church  upon  them,  I  asked  of  the  papal  representative  that  the  custom  of 
collecting  for  the  services  of  the  church  be  discontinued.  The  representative 
was  greatly  displeased  and,  with  the  help  of  the  Governor  of  Puebla,  who 
brought  about  two  hundred  men,  came  about  the  middle  of  the  night,  tied  me 
up  by  the  neck  and  by  the  arms  and  took  away  from  me  all  that  I  had  in  the 
church  and  arrested  all  in  the  church  who  cooperated  with  me.  They  took  me 
on  foot  to  Jalisco  where  I  was  imprisoned  two  years.  In  prison  I  contracted 
a  disease  from  which  developed  a  tumor  in  my  face.  They  operated  on  me 
and  left  my  mouth  disfigured,  as  you  can  see. 

The  Bishop  of  Puebla  called  me  and  offered  me  another  curate  under  the 
condition  that  I  retract  all  I  had  said,  all  that  I  had  asked  of  the  papal  delegate. 
I  replied  that  in  no  sense  would  I  retract  what  I  had  said  because  all  my  re¬ 
quests  were  Christian.  Then  they  asked  me  to  make  an  explanation  to  the 
press.  When  I  asked  in  what  form  the  explanation  should  be  made,  they 
said  simply  to  state  that,  seeing  the  desires  of  my  superiors,  I  wished  to  make 
this  explanation.  I  refused  to  do  it  and  was  straightway  thrown  into  a  dun¬ 
geon.  I  will  give  you  a  copy  of  our  paper  which  covers  the  story.  The  whole 
fight  was  to  take  out  of  the  church  the  Simoniac  custom,  which  I  wished  to 
discard. 

Please  give  me  your  questions  in  writing  and  I  shall  be  glad  to  answer 
them. 

I  have  had  as  my  ideal  the  assistance  of  the  church  and  I  do  not  believe 
they  have  the  right  to  collect  for  the  services  rendered  to  poor  people.  I  wish 
to  return  to  the  primitive  church  custom. 


—32 


Questions  asked  were  answered  by  one  of  the  Patriarch’s  assistants  as 
follows: 

QUESTION:  Have  all  your  assistants  come  from  the  Roman  church? 

ANSWER:  Yes,  they  have  come  from  the  Roman  Catholic  church.  We 
have  eight  parishes  in  Puebla,  seven  in  Chiapas,  in  all  forty-eight  parishes. 
The  church  is  orthodox  because  it  practices  pure  Christianity  and  it  is  uni¬ 
versal.  It  is  made  up  entirely  of  Mexicans.  All  services  are  held  in  Spanish. 
We  do  not  use  Latin  for  anything. 

QUESTION:  Is  there  any  movement  toward  this  church  because  of  the 
recent  political  disturbances? 

ANSWER:  Yes.  We  have  had  calls  for  additional  priests,  and  have  re¬ 
ceived  assurance  of  support  from  Puebla.  Three  committees  have  been  sent 
here  to  assassinate  him  and  Calles,  with  instructions  to  assassinate  him  in  a 
Christian  manner. 

QUESTION:  What  kind  of  Bible  do  you  use  in  your  church? 

ANSWER:  We  use  the  Valera  edition,  both  Old  and  New  Testaments. 
We  use  no  notes  in  our  Bibles,  but  allow  the  reader  to  interpret  for  himself. 

QUESTION:  What  provisions  are  being  made  for  seminary  training  of 
boys? 

ANSWER:  We  are  going  to  organize  a  seminary,  but  cannot  do  so  yet, 
as  our  movement  is  very  new.  Our  students  study  Spanish,  English,  logic, 
theology,  and  philosophy,  but  no  Latin, 

QUESTION:  Do  all  your  mem-bers  have  Bibles? 

ANSWER:  Yes.  (He  inquired  as  to  the  prices  of  Bibles  in  the  United 
States,  with  the  idea  of  getting  them  to  distribute  among  his  people.) 

QUESTION:  Do  you  already  have  your  training  school? 

ANSWER:  We  will  organize  it  as  soon  as  possible. 

QUESTION:  Do  you  allow  your  priests  to  marry? 

ANSWER:  Yes,  we  have  marriage  among  our  priests. 

Miss  Caroline  Smith:  There  is  a  famous  woman  orator  who  goes  about 
the  country  speaking  against  the  Catholics.  She  talked  yesterday  on  the 
street.  When  some  person  expressed  the  wish  that  the  bells  of  this  church, 
nearby,  would  cease  ringing,  she  said,  “No,  let  them  ring.  That  is  the  truly 
Mexican  Catholic  Church.” 

Asked  concerning  the  fundamental  basis  of  the  Orthodox  Mexican  Aposto¬ 
lic  Catholic  Church’,  the  assistant  said: 

Our  church  does  not  constitute  a  sect,  but  includes  the  true  religion  found¬ 
ed  on  Christ,  our  Divine  Master  and  Redeemer. 

The  corner-stone  of  this  church  is  the  sacred  scriptures  of  the  Old  and 
the  New  Testaments,  which  may  be  interpreted  liberally  by  members. 

The  purity  of  the  Holy  Virgin  Mary  is  an  article  of  faith  for  us  and 
nobody  may  belong  to  the  real  religion  without  this  belief.  The  saints  are 
also  to  be  venerated. 

The  governing  power  of  this  church  resides  in  its  Patriarch,  independent 
of  the  Church  of  Rome,  and  does  not  have  any  relation  to  the  Pope  or  the 
authority  of  the  Vatican.  The  Mexican  Patriarch  alone  shall  govern  and  shall 
have  the  authority  to  ordain  his  ministers  and  to  confer  upon  them  the  right 
to  administer  the  Sacred  Sacraments. 

The  Sacred  Sacraments  are  to  be  administered  without  charge,  that  an 
end  may  be  put  to  the  Simoniacal  custom  which  exists  in  the  Church  of  Rome. 
Alms  may  be  given  freely. 

The  priests  of  this  church  shall  be  useful  citizens  of  society,  obeying  the 
laws  and  institutions  of  the  country,  and  no  person  should  gain  a  livelihood 
except  by  his  own  efforts. 


We  abandon  the  idea  of  ecclesiastical  celibacy  as  being  immoral  and  un¬ 
natural.  The  priests  should  have  their  own  households. 

All  services  of  the  church  and  all  liturgical  books  should  be  in  the  Spanish 
language. 

The  clergy  of  this  church  do  not  pretend  to  practice  temporal  and  spiritual 
dominance  over  the  members. 

Our  God  is  a  perfect  being  without  wrath  or  vengeance,  and  therefore 
cannot  condemn  for  eternity  those  created  in  his  own  image.  The  punishment 
is  measured  by  the  sin  committed. 

QUESTION:  How  did  you  secure  this  church  building? 

ANSWER:  We  secured  permission  from  the  government  to  use  this 

building.  It  was  filled  with  agricultural  implements  before  the  government 
let  us  have  it. 

QUESTION:  What  do  you  think  of  the  program  of  the  present  govern¬ 
ment? 

ANSWER:  It  is  very  good,  because  it  will  aid  in  teaching  the  church 
to  comply  with  the  law  and  to  abandon  fanaticism.  At  one  time  the  law  was 
broken  by  the  bishops  and  the  archbishop  because  of  instructions  of  the  Pope. 

QUESTION:  What  do  the  Protestant  churches  think  of  your  movement? 

ANSWER:  They  have  congratulated  us. 

QUESTION:  Have  your  priests  been  excommunicated? 

ANSWER:  It  is  supposed  they  are,  although  they  have  never  been  so 
advised.  They  have  cut  themselves  off  from  the  Pope.  They  have  no  relation 
to  him.  Excommunication  by  the  Pope  will  not  affect  these  people. 

QUESTION:  Who  has  the  authority  to  ordain  your  priests? 

ANSWER:  Within  a  month  there  will  be  seventeen  young  men  from  the 
Eastern  Orthodox  Greek  Church  and  they  will  receive  authority  to  ordain 
priests.  It  is  simply  to  establish  apostolic  succession. 

QUESTION:  Has  the  Catholic  church  interfered  with  your  work? 

ANSWER:  Yes.  The  women  especially  have  done  all  they  could  to  dis¬ 
credit  this  church.  I  sent  two  girls  to  a  church  to  find  out  what  they  were 
saying  and  they  said  that  instructions  were  being  given  to  get  rid  of  us  in 
any  way  possible. 

One  of  the  assistants  of  the  Patriarch,  formerly  a  pastor  in  the  Episcopal 
Church  for  fifty-one  years,  spoke : 

I  take  the  greatest  pleasure  in  seeing  a  genuine  representation  of  the 
United  States.  I  had  the  pleasure  of  travelling  thirty-one  years  ago  in  the 
United  States  and  realize  the  importance  of  your  country  to  ours.  I  want  you 
to  know  with  what  great  affection  I  regard  the  people  of  the  United  States. 

I  am  in  sympathy  with  and  am  associated  with  the  work  of  the  Patriarch. 
Up  to  the  present  time  we  have  not  been  able  to  put  into  effect  all  the  reform 
which  I  would  like  to  see  brought  about.  One  point  unites  us  with  this  man: 
that  is,  liberty  of  the  church  in  this  country.  The  hope  of  the  movement  of  the 
Patriarch  is  not  to  fight  against  anyone,  but  only  to  restore  the  work  of  the 
church.  He  wishes  to  perpetuate  the  spirit  of  the  church  during  its  first  years, 
which  spirit  has  been  lost.  He  wishes  to  keep  the  purity  of  the  doctrines  of 
that  epoch.  We  know  that  the  church  during  its  first  five  centuries  did  not 
have  a  pope.  The  first  pope  was  in  590  A.  D.  Since  then  there  have  come 
into  the  Catholic  church  many  doctrines  contrary  to  its  original  teachings. 
One  of  the  scandalous  practices  has  been  the  exploitation  of  the  people.  Christ 
gave  instructions  to  His  apostles  to  go  out  and  give  grace  for  grace. 

About  thirty  years  ago,  the  Patriarch  was  pastor  of  a  humble  church  whose 
members  were  very  poor.  They  were  not  able  to  pay  for  their  marriages, 
their  confirmations,  or  their  burials.  In  pity  for  them,  he  sent  a  petition  to  the 


—34— 


papal  delegate,  picturing  th-e  miserable  situation  of  those  people  and  asking 
that  the  tariff  charged  for  the  ceremonies  be  reduced  or  entirely  abolished,  if 
possible.  The  petition  caused  great  alarm  among  the  clergy  because  the 
Roman  Catholic  Church  has  as_  its  fundamental  basis  the  practice  of  Simony. 
They  put  into  operation  all  measures  possible  to  persecute  this  man.  They 
sent  two  hundred  men  to  arrest  him.  This  was  thirty  years  ago.  They  tied  a 
rope  about  his  neck  and  lead  him  to  Jalisco,  and  placed  him  with  five  hundred 
criminals,  where  they  kept  him  for  years.  The  same  abuses  were  committed 
against  others  at  times. 

Now  they  are  very  bitter  because  President  Calles  demands  compliance 
with  the  law.  The  first  requirement  is  that  all  pastors  shall  be  Mexican  by 
birth.  It  may  be  that  some  do  not  agree  with  this,  but  the  law  is  the  law  and 
should  be  obeyed.  We  all  must  conform  to  the  law.  The  Methodists,  the 
Episcopalians,  and  the  Baptists— all  have  complied  with  the  law.  The  priests 
say  that  they  will  not  obey  the  law.  They  will  not  recognize  the  Constitution. 
They  claim  that  they  are  responsible  only  to  the  Pope.  Could  they  live  in 
Mexico  if  there  were  no  Constitution  or  the  laws  were  not  obeyed?  It  is  not 
a  religious  question.  It  is  a  question  of  obedience  to  the  law.  Will  they  be 
Catholic  or  Mexican? 


Business  Conditions 

George  WYTHE,  commercial  attache  of  the  United  States  Embassy,  came 
to  the  group  in  its  conference  room  in  the  Princess  Hotel  and  discussed 
business  conditions  in  Mexico  by  the  question  and  answer  method  entirely. 
He  emphasized  that  he  would  express  his  personal  opinions  and  would  not  speak 
officially  as  a  representative  of  the  Embassy. 

The  group  had  an  interview  with  James  Sheffield,  the  American  Ambassa¬ 
dor,  on  Wednesday,  August  4,  but  notes  of  the  interview  were  forbidden. 

The  Wythe  interview  follows: 

QUESTION:  What  do  you  think  of  the  statement  that  the  labor  unions 
have  been  forced  by  the  government  to  take  part  in  the  recent  demonstration 
endorsing  the  government? 

ANSWER:  Mr.  Morones,  the  Mexican  Minister  of  Commerce  and  Labor, 
has  a  vital  interest  in  the  welfare  of  the  Labor  Union. 

QUESTION:  Do  you  regard  the  present  organization  of  the  C.  R.  O.  M. 
in  any  way  prejudicial  to  the  national  government? 

ANSWER:  It  has  the  same  form  as  in  other  parts  of  the  world.  It  is 
relatively  young  and  untrained.  I  see  nothing  abnormal  in  it.  It  has  had 
more  governmental  support  than  labor  unions  usually  get. 

QUESTION:  Is  this  government  support  made  mandatory  on  them? 
ANSWER:  Governmental  support  is  in  most  cases  behind  the  labor 

organizations.  If  the  organization  should  go  too  far,  however,  the  government 
would  check  them. 

QUESTION:  Is  American  capital  increasing  or  decreasing  in  the  last  few 
years  in  Mexico? 

ANSWER:  Small  industries  have  increased  in  Mexico.  Small  plants  of 
American  management  have  sprung  up  lately.  High  tariff  has  caused  them  to 
be  brought  in.  Some  are  French  and  some  German.  Mining  is  more  active. 
There  has  not  been  a  real  increase  of  capital  investment  in  mining,  but  actual 
output  has  been  increasing.  Land  holdings  have  not  increased  except  for  small 
pieces  of  property  for  industrial  purposes.  Capital  investment  in  oil  fields 


—35— 


have  increased  because  every  time  a  well  is  put  down,  the  capital  investment 
increases.  But  there  are  comparatively  few  new  investments  on  a  large  scale. 

QUESTION:  What  will  the  new  law  taxing  mines  do  for  mines  and 
wages? 

ANSWER:  The  general  effect  will  be  to  help  large  companies.  Small 
companies  will  be  put  out  of  business.  It  costs  money  to  conform  to  all  the 
details  of  the  law  and  to  work  mines.  It  is  possible  that  it  will  be  taken  off 
the  wage  earnings.  The  production  cost  is  very  high.  The  big  companies  will 
be  helped.  They  can  operate  really  cheaper  than  can  the  small  mines.  '  The 
very  high  grade  ore  mines  will  not  be  affected. 

QUESTION:  How  do  taxes  compare  in  Mexico,  on  mining  and  oil,  with 
those  in  the  United  States? 

ANSWER:  In  mining,  under  the  old  schedule,  the  Mexican  taxes  wert* 
heavier  on  gold  and  silver.  But  American  taxes  were  heavier  on  the  base 
metals,  that  is,  taxation  pure  and  simple.  I  do  not  know  about  the  oil.  There 
would  probably  be  a  variation  with  fields  and  circumstances. 

QUESTION:  Are  there  any  oil  refineries  in  this  republic? 

ANSWER:  They  have  increased.  There  are  local  corporations  that  use 
more  of  domestic  oil  than  before. 

QUESTION:  Why  is  gas  so  high  here? 

ANSWER:  The  companies  say  it  is  because  of  high  taxes,  the  high  cost 
of  operation  due  to  labor  trouble,  etc.  They  produce  on  a  relatively  small 
scale  here.  Freight  rates  generally  are  no  higher  than  in  the  United  States, 
but  things  are  done  in  a  smaller  way,  thereby  increasing  operative  costs.  The 
republic  of  Mexico  has  few  automobiles  in  comparison  with  the  United  States, 
the  entire  republic  having  fewer  than  the  one  town  of  Dallas,  Texas.  There¬ 
fore,  the  unit  cost  is  high. 

QUESTION:  Was  it  the  intention  of  the  man  who  promulgated  these 
laws  to  drive  industry  into  consolidation? 

ANSWER:  I  do  not  know  what  was  in  the  mind  of  the  government. 
They  may  have  had  in  mind  to  prevent  a  company  from  holding  large  numbers 
of  mines  for  long  periods  of  time,  by  requiring  them  to  work  the  mines.  The 
effect,  however,  will  be  to  crush  the  small  man. 

QUESTION:  Is  the  small  man  a  factor  in  the  mining  industry? 

ANSWER:  Heretofore  he  has  been  a  big  factor  in  finding  mines.  Many 
prospectors  have  been  in  the  country,  some  discovering  mines  and  many  failing. 
But  the  actual  development  of  the  mines  will  probably  not  be  influenced  by  the 
loss  of  the  small  miners. 

QUESTION :  Do  the  American  business  men  feel  that  there  is  any  dis¬ 
crimination  in  Mexico  in  favor  of  any  particular  nation? 

ANSWER:  Many  laws  discriminate  in  favor  of  Mexico.  The  law  pro¬ 
vides  that  at  least  80  per  cent  of  the  employees  must  be  Mexican.  The  pur¬ 
pose  is  to  train  the  personnel  of  Mexican  engineers.  Probably  in  the  long  run 
it  is  a  very  good  thing  to  have  a  trained  body  of  engineers.  But  aside  from 
that,  I  do  not  think  any  nationality  is  favored. 

QUESTION :  Is  there  a  general  feeling  in  favor  of  Germans? 

ANSWER:  The  Germans  generally  intermarry  with  the  Mexicans  more 
than  do  the  Americans.  But  I  know  of  no  occasion  in  which  the  Mexican 
government  has  favored  Germany  over  America.  The  tendency  seems  to  be 
to  favor  the  Americans.  The  Americans  are  on  the  job,  they  get  the  goods  in 
here  more  quickly  and  get  them  of  better  quality.  There  are  some  lines  in 
which  Americans  really  have  no  competition,  as  in  talking  machines  or  type¬ 
writers.  There  are  some  lines  in  which  competition  is  very,  very  keen  with 
local  manufacturers  and  those  from  other  countries.  The  United  States  can- 


—36— 


not  compete  in  electric  wire.  Americans  buy  German  wire  here,  because  they 
can  get  it  cheaper.  American  automobiles  have  little  competition.  Even  the 
British  minister  rides  in  an  American  car.  This  is  because  of  better  service 
and  is  true  throughout  the  republic.  The  Ford  Company  has  an  assembling 
plant  here. 

QUESTION:  Is  there  a  tariff  on  automobiles? 

ANSWER:  Yes,  on  a  specific  basis  of  so  much  per  kilogram. 

QUESTION:  Is  France  favored  in  the  tariff  laws? 

ANSWER:  No,  Mexico  has  denounced  her  commercial  treaties  with  all 
countries  and  the  only  country  she  has  a  commercial  treaty  with  now  is  Japan. 
All  countries  get  the  same  treatment. 

QUESTION:  To  what  extent  has  the  boycott  been  effective? 

ANSWER:  We  shall  have  to  disentangle  this  from  many  other  things  in 
order  to  know  exactly  the  effect  of  the  boycott.  However,  it  did  have  its 
effect.  How  much  is  due  to  the  general  situation  and  how  much  to  the  boy¬ 
cott  is  hard  to  tell.  It  has  had  some  effect  on  luxuries. 

QUESTION:  Is  business  paralyzed  now? 

ANSWER:  That  is  a  wrong  statement.  It  is  hard  to  say.  People  have 
to  live.  The  majority  of  goods  are  bought  because  people  have  to  have  them. 
In  a  city  like  Mexico,  it  will  be  felt  in  certain  lines,  as  phonographs,  moving 
pictures,  etc.  But  people  must  have  shoes.  In  times  of  revolution  people 
spend  money,  thinking  that  tomorrow  may  find  it  worthless.  Things  just  now 
are  a  little  depressed,  but  business  must  go  ahead.  It  cannot  stop. 

QUESTION:  Is  the  balance  of  trade  against  Mexico? 

ANSWER:  No,  it  is  much  in  favor  of  Mexico.  Exports  in  minerals, 
coffee,  and  vegetable  fibers,  reach  a  large  figure.  Yet  less  than  3  per  cent 
of  the  mineral  exports  are  produced  by  Mexicans.  Practically  all  vegetables 
are  produced  by  Americans  and  Chinese  on  the  coast.  Practically  all  exports 
are  in  the  hands  of  foreigners.  ’ 

QUESTION:  Does  Mexico  profit  by  it? 

ANSWER:  Not  so  much  as  if  it  were  her  own  capital,  but  a  certain 
part  of  it  comes  back  to  Mexico  in  permanent  fixtures,  roads,  etc.  The  per 
cent  which  goes  to  profits  goes  to  foreign  countries,  however. 

QUESTION:  What  would  be  the  effect  upon  the  economic  life  if  foreign 
capital  were  withdrawn? 

ANSWER:  The  largest  part  could  not  be  withdrawn  if  they  wished. 

The  most  of  it  is  in  land.  The  land  holdings  is  the  largest  single  investment 
by  foreigners.  Who  will  buy  it?  They  cannot  withdraw  it. 

QUESTION :  What  per  cent  of  shoes  and  leather  goods  do  the  Mexicans 
manufacture? 

ANSWER:  Only  the  common  grades  used  in  the  country  at  the  present 
time.  The  finest  grades  are  imported  from  the  United  States. 

QUESTION:  What  is  the  duty  on  foreign  shoes? 

ANSWER:  It  varies  according  to  length  of  last.  It  is  prohibitive  in  the 
common  grade  of  shoe.  The  consumption  of  shoes  is  increasing.  People  are 
wearing  more  and  more  of  American  clothes.  There  are  many  factories  and 
shops  in  Mexico. 

QUESTION:  Will  rubber  become  an  industry  in  Mexico? 

ANSWER:  Before  the  revolution,  when  the  price  of  rubber  was  very 
high,  they  planted  extensive  plantations  in  the  southern  regions.  Now  it  is 
impossible  to  get  it  out,  except  at  prohibitive  prices.  A  certain  amount  is 
produced  by  Indians  in  a  crude  fashion.  Some  is  going  out  from  the  northern 
part  of  the  country.  The  cost  of  maintaining  rubber  plantations  is  high  be¬ 
cause  of  the  growth  of  jungle  which  prohibits  getting  the  rubber  out. 


QUESTION:  What  are  the  prospects  of  production  of  rubber  in  Mexico? 

ANSWER:  They  have  the  soil  and  the  climate,  but  labor  is  bound  to  go 
up  in  Mexico.  Transportation  difficulties  will  add  much  to  the  cost  of 
operation. 

QUESTION:  Can  land  now  covered  with  cactus  be  used  for  rubber? 

ANSWER:  It  is.  But  who  wants  to  put  money  into  it  to  develop  it? 

QUESTION:  What  proportion  of  coffee  is  financed  by  Mexicans? 

ANSWER:  Probably  10  per  cent  is  in  the  hands  of  Mexicans.  Some  is 
in  the  hands  of  British  and  some  in  hands  of  Germans. 

QUESTION:  What  is  the  reaction  of  the  American  business  men  toward 
the  revolution? 

ANSWER:  The  attitude  of  Americans  to  Mexican  officials  is  divided  as 
in  the  States  towards  the  American  president.  They  vary. 

QUESTION:  Is  the  Mexican  method  of  doing  business  different  from 
that  of  Americans,  meaning  that  there  will  be  some  graft? 

ANSWER:  Most  Americans  do  not  bribe.  Most  other  foreigners  do 
bribe  and  do  not  have  any  respect  for  the  government. 

QUESTION:  Are  there  many  large  ranches  owned  by  Americans?  Has 
the  government  taken  any  of  them  over? 

ANSWER:  Very  few  have  been  taken  over  completely.  The  agrarian 
question  is  very  hard  to  understand.  Generally  speaking,  before  the  time  of 
the  Spanish,  the  Indians  lived  in  groups,  with  primitive  ideas  of  holding  prop¬ 
erty — the  communal  idea.  Until  the  time  of  Jaurez  they  worked  the  land  in  a 
communal  way.  They  owned  the  woods,  waters,  and  pastures  in  common. 
Jaurez  provided  that  no  corporation  could  own  land  in  Mexico.  He  aimed  at 
the  church,  but  hit  the  villages  and  they  were  forced  to  give  up  lands,  to 
sell  them  and  to  get  individual  titles  to  them.  Being  ignorant,  the  most  of 
them  sold  their  land.  Some  were  protected  by  good  leaders,  who  saw  that 
villages  did  not  lose  their  titles.  Diaz  thought  the  Indian  an  obstacle  to 
progress.  He  wanted  to  wipe  out  the  old  traditions  and  to  wipe  out  the 
communal  concept.  Many  Indians  then  lost  their  lands.  The  revolution  pro¬ 
vided  for  the  restoration  of  all  lands  taken  from  the  Indians  and  much  land 
was  returned  to  the  Indians.  Some  of  those  Indians  still  have  land  given  them 
then.  It  is  impossible,  therefore,  to  pass  on  the  question.  It  is  very  nice  that 
these  Indians  have  their  own  lands.  The  chances  are  that  they  will  stay 
under  the  old  communal  system  for  the  next  hundred  years.  There  are  few 
land  owners  who  have  not  had  some  of  their  land  taken. 

QUESTION:  Will  Americans  have  difficulty  in  disposing  of  their  land? 

ANSWER:  Who  will  buy  it? 

QUESTION:  Does  the  law  provide  for  their  confiscation? 

ANSWER:  Since  October  of  last  year  bonds  were  issued  by  the  govern¬ 
ment  and  have  some  commercial  value,  as  in  the  payment  of  taxes. 

QUESTION:  Who  decides  how  much  the  government  shall  pay  for  land? 

ANSWER:  It  is  all  settled  by  certain  commissions. 

QUESTION:  Do  American  oil  interests  cooperate  now  with  the  Mexican 
government? 

ANSWER:  No  one  is  ever  content  on  the  -question  of  taxes.  It  has  not 
been  fully  adjusted.  The  companies  accepted  the  law.  Some  of  them  pay 
under  protest.  Most  of  the  American  companies  pay,  but  with  complaint. 

QUESTION:  How  much  of  the  capital  invested  in  Mexican  railways  is 
American? 

ANSWER:  The  amount  is  relatively  small.  Most  of  the  American 

capital  is  in  the  Southern  Pacific,  which  runs  down  the  western  coast.  Only  a 
small  per  cent  is  held  in  the  United  States.  The  Mexican  railroad  is  held  by 


—38— 


the  Mexican  government,  which  holds  a  controlling  stock.  The  Inter-Oceanic 
Railroad  is  owned  half  by  British  and  half  by  the  Mexican  government.  The 
road  from  Vera  Cruz  to  Mexico  City  is  held  by  British.  Many  small  railroads 
here  are  built  by  mining  companies,  of  which  many  are  held  by  Americans. 
The  street  railways  are  owned  by  Canadian  capital.  The  Mexican  railroad  has 
a  board  of  directors,  dominated  by  the  Mexican  government. 

QUESTION:  Does  the  Mexican  government  have  an  export  duty  on  all 
products  that  go  from  the  country?  Will  it  hamper  foreign  trade? 

ANSWER:  The  president  can  change  any  duty  he  wishes,  over  night. 
Since  Carranza  came  into  power  congress  has  not  appropriated  a  budget. 
Everything  is  paid  out  of  government  funds  at  the  order  of  the  president.  He 
changes  the  import  and  export  duties,  the  salaries,  as  he  wishes.  States  some¬ 
times  levy  export  taxes  in  spite  of  the  Constitution.  It  is  dangerous  to  busi¬ 
ness.  They  never  know  what  to  expect  and  therefore  hesitate  to  invest. 

QUESTION:  »Why  doesn’t  congress  vote  a  budget? 

ANSWER:  They  cannot  agree.  It  is  better  to  leave  it  in  the  hands  of  the 
president.  The  real  trouble  of  taxes  is  from  the  states.  The  changes  of  duty 
are  so  fast.  The  entire  system  may  be  changed  in  a  few  months,  as  in  the 
case  of  automobiles  in  the  last  three  months.  The  difficultj"  is  the  uncertainty. 

QUESTION:  Are  the  executive  powers  larger  here  than  in  most  other 
Latin-American  countries? 

ANSWER:  I  have  not  had  experience  in  Latin-American  countries.  In 
many,  as  here,  I  think,  the  president  decides  everything  of  any  importance. 

QUESTION:  Does  the  executive  officer  in  all  Latin-American  countries 
have  larger  power  than  in  America? 

ANSWER:  He  has.  The  mining  law  was  promulgated  by  presidential 
decree  and  so  were  many  others.  The  religious  regulations  were  by  decree. 
The  congress  here  went  through  the  formality  of  passing  a  law  authorizing 
the  president  to  issue  the  decree,  without  giving  any  details  of  the  law. 

QUESTION:  Can  the  president  annul  the  judgment  of  a  court  as  he 
wishes? 

ANSWER:  The  courts  would  be  careful  to  know  the  president’s  wishes 

first. 

QUESTION:  What  is  your  personal  reaction  as  to  the  ability  of  the  last 
president  in  comparison  with  this  one? 

ANSWER:  President  Calles  is  a  better  administrator,  is  a  more  modern 
business  man  type,  is  more  efficient. 

QUESTION:  What  way  is  there  for  a  group  who  object  to  a  law  to  have 
redress? 

ANSWER:  By  persuading  the  president.  The  constitutioft  is  usually 
amended  by  revolution. 


The  Program  of  Education 

The  program,  of  education  of  the  Calles  government  was  described  by 
Dr.  Moises  Saenz,  assistant  secretary  of  education,  in  an  interview  at  noon, 
August  6.  He  spoke  in  English,  as  follows: 

It  gives  me  great  pleasure  to  welcome  you,  ladies  and  gentlemen,  to  the 
Department  of  Education;  and  we  feel  very  grateful  to  you  for  your  attitude 
in  your  trip,  your  desire  to  find  out  the  facts  about  Mexico.  We  certainly 
hope  we  can  give  you  in  this  visit  to  the  Department  some  information  that 
may  be  valuable  to  you. 


—39 


I  will  make  a  more  or  less  introductory  statement  about  education  in 
Mexico;  then  you  may  ask  questions.  We  have  a  federal  system  of  schools, 
directed  by  this  Department  of  Education.  Then  each  state  has  its  own  school 
system.  We  have  a  dual  system  of  education  in  Mexico.  The  Federal  District 
also  has  its  jurisdiction.  The  federal  government  can  establish  any  number  of 
schools  anywhere  in  Mexico.  We  have  the  right  to  do  that,  but  then  each  state 
has  the  responsibility  for  its  own  school  system  within  the  state  and  is  of 
course  the  final  authority  for  school  matters  in  the  state.  The  question  of 
responsibility  is  entirely  clear.  We  do  not  try  to  govern.  We  go  out  to  help 
and  supplement  the  action  of  the  state.  Even  the  counties  have  in  some  part 
school  responsibility. 

The  type  of  schools  we  have  established  are  the  same  as  in  every  other 
country.  They  go  from  the  Tcindergarten  to  the  university,  through  the  differ¬ 
ent  grades.  A  primary  school  has  two  divisions — the  first  four  years,  elemen¬ 
tary  grades;  and  then  two  years,  which  are  the  superior  prirnary  grades.  The 
six  years  form  the  primary  school  proper.  Then  we  have  secondary  schools  of 
different  types.  There  are  five  years  of  the  secondary  school;  the  student 
then  enters  the  university. 

We  do  not  have  anything  to  correspond  to  your  college.  A  boy  will 
start  at  seven,  study  six  years  in  the  primary  schools,  then  five  years  in  the 
secondary  schools,  and  then  enter  the  university  for  five  or  six  years;  or  he 
may  elect  to  study  law,  medicine  or  some  other  course  in  some  of  our  special, 
professional  schools.  We  have  no  college. 

All  of  the  states  have  advanced  or  secondary  schools.  We  have  normal 
schools  in  each  state.  Some  of  the  states  have  all  of  these  schools,  but  not 
each  of  the  states.  That  is,  not  all  of  them  have  schools  of  medicine,  schools 
of  law,  etc.  Here  in  Mexico  there  is  to  be  found  each  one  of  these  schools; 
there  is  a  type  of  school  which  is  somewhat  of  a  college  and  then  something 
more.  It  gives  a  liberal  college  course  in  a  way. 

We  have  what  you  call  the  private  school  system.  There  are  private 
schools  everywhere.  It  is  not  right  really  to  speak  of  a  private  school  system, 
as  there  is  no  center  of  organization.  There  are  a  large  number  of  private 
schools  all  over  Mexico.  These  schools  can  be  divided  into  three  groups.  In 
this  group  of  private  schools,  there  are  a  large  number  of  so-called  Catholic 
schools;  that  is,  schools  established  with  some  religious  aim  in  view,  supported 
more  or  less  by  some  religious  organization.  We  have  a  very  small  group  of 
mission  schools  which  have  the  same  characteristics;  and  then  we  have  the 
private  schools  run  on  a  commercial  basis,  just  as  a  business  proposition.  A 
large  number  of  latter  type  are  so-called  Catholic  schools,  church  schools. 

I  do  not  want  you  to  get  the  impression  that  when  I  speak  of  Catholic 
private  schools  I  am  speaking  of  the  parochial  schools.  In  many  of  these 
Catholic  schools,  they  are  not  like  the  convents  or  the  parochial  schools;  per¬ 
sons  with  strong  Catholic  tendencies  will  have  these  schools;  priests  will  come 
and  have  something  to  do,  and  yet  these  are  not  parochial  schools.  Even  the 
parochial  schools  are  not  exactly  in  connection  with  the  church. 

These  Catholic  schools  are  principally  in  Mexico  City.  We  have  very  few 
in  the  country  at  large,  especially  in  the  rural  districts.  In  Mexico  City  and 
the  environs  of  the  city  there  are  quite  a  number  of  private  schools.  In  the 
smaller  towns  maybe  one  or  two.  I  do  not  have  any  statistics  on  the  number 
of  private  schools. 

In  the  public  school  system,  the  constant  effort  has  been  that  no  religion 
should  be  taught  in  the  primary  schools.  It  is  now  prohibited.  The  law  says 
these  primary  schools  should  not  be  conducted  by  a  religious  organization  and 
that  no  priest  or  minister  should  teach  in  any  one  of  these  primary  schools. 


—40— 


One  of  the  regulations  is  that  no  primary  school  should  teach  religion;  they 
should  be  secular;  that  applies  not  only  to  the  Catholic  but  to  all  religions. 
For  that  reason,  the  Department  has  issued  a  special  set  of  regulations  for 
private  schools.  Under  the  law,  there  is  a  certain  amount  of  regulation  for 
the  teachers,  specifying  a  certain  am.ount  of  preparation,  and  for  the  equip¬ 
ment  of  the  schools.  All  of  these  regulations  were  discussed  in  this  department 
by  a  committee  composed  of  delegates  from  the  private  schools  and  from  the 
department.  These  regulations  were  accepted  by  the  Protestants  and  non¬ 
religious  schools,  and  at  present  you  will  observe  that  these  schools  are  open 
and  have  not  been  affected.  But  in  many  cases  the  Catholic  schools  did  not 
and  would  not  accept  these  regulations. 

We  knew  that  the  great  weakness  in  our  educational  system  in  Mexico 
was  in  the  country  schools.  For  many  years  here  in  the  city  we  have  had  very 
fine  schools  of  different  types,  also  in  some  parts  of  the  country  just  as  fine. 
In  different  parts  of  Mexico  you  will  find  systems  of  different  types.  Some  of 
these  schools  are  just  as  fine  as  you  will  find  in  any  part  of  the  world,  but 
there  were  not  enough  schools.  It  was  not  the  effort  of  the  church,  as  they 
claimed,  to  spread  or  extend  their  schools  to  all  parts  of  the  country.  They 
were  only  in  the  large  cities.  In  the  administration  of  President  Diaz  many 
fine  schools  and  very  fine  public  buildings  were  built.  But  all  of  this  develop¬ 
ment  was  here  in  the  city  or  in  the  larger  cities  and  towns  of  the  Republic, 
so  that  all  the  foreigners  who  came  to  visit  us  could  see  and  wonder  at  the 
development  down  here  in  Mexico.  But  the  greatest  need  in  Mexico  was  for 
schools  in  the  country,  in  the  rural  districts;  so  when  the  Department  was  re¬ 
established  in  1920,  we  started  with  a  national  program  of  education  and  we 
then  began  to  establish  and  work  for  schools  in  all  of  the  rural  districts. 

The  most  significant  thing  in  the  work  of  this  Department  is  that  for  the 
first  time — not  boasting — we  have  thought  in  national  terms.  Previously  the 
effort  was  always  either  directed  to  the  city  of  Mexico  or  to  some  particular 
place.  But  one  of  the  results  of  the  revolutions  has  been  that  the  people  are 
thinking  in  national  terms  and  of  problems  and  situations  as  a  whole. 

We  know  we  will  have  to  go  to  the  far  away  districts  in  order  to  save 
Mexico  educationally.  It  is  very  easy  to  pacify  oneself  over  having  fine  schools 
in  the  capital  of  the  Republic  or  the  capital  of  the  states  and  seeing  what 
kind  of  fine  work  they  are  doing;  but  it  is  very  hard  when  you  think  of  all 
those  places  and  children  without  any  schools.  Our  principal  problem  is  get¬ 
ting  far  enough  away  to  reach  all  of  the  Indians,  for  there  are  many  who  do 
not  speak  Spanish,  who  do  not  understand  it  at  all.  It  is  very  clearly  our  great 
problem  in  Mexico  to  help  educationally;  it  is  a  question  of  schools. 

We  have  an  illiteracy  of  62  per  cent  of  the  population.  That  means  over 
8,000,000  people  do  not  know  how  to  read  and  write,  including  children.  We 
have  almost  two  million  and  three-quarters  of  school  age  at  present.  There 
are  approximately  one  million  and  three-quarters  going  to  school  at  present. 
In  other  words,  out  of  our  two  million  and  three-quarters  of  possible  school 
children,  one  million  are  not  going  to  school.  They  are  not  going  because 
there  are  no  schools  to  which  they  can  go.  We  have  no  means  yet  of  forcing 
them  to  go,  for  we  simply  have  not  enough  schools.  One  of  the  great  problems 
is  that  the  department  lacks  funds  to  open  schools  or  to  send  an  extra  teacher 
here  and  there.  We  have  more  children  than  we  can  take  care  of.  It  is  simply 
a  question  at  present  of  establishing  some  more  schools.  The  schools  we  have 
already  established  are  not  adequate. 

In  1925,  the  twenty-eight  states,  independent  of  the  federal  government, 
had  4,635  rural  schools.  The  federal  government  this  year  has  2721  rural 
schools.  We  have  4,208  elementarj’^  schools  supported  by  the  states  and  683 


—41— 


secondary  schools.  The  total  number  is  7,356  schools;  the  total  enrollment 
was  1,049,521  in  all  schools.  The  percentage  of  school  age  attending  at 
present  is  39.57.  Only  four  out  of  ten  of  school  age  are  going  to  school  at 
present.  That  is,  in  the  public  schools.  Unfortunately  we  do  not  have 
statistics  on  the  private  schools.  Of  course  a  number  of  these  children  are 
going  to  private  schools.  A  good  guess  would  be  that  five  out  of  every  ten 
children  are  in  school  at  present  in  Mexico;  that  is,  four  in  the  public  schools 
and  one  in  the  private  schools. 

Now  this  is  the  problem  Ave  have  before  us.  We  have  to  provide  for  an¬ 
other  two  million  children.  We  have  also  the  question  of  adult  illiteracy,  but, 
to  tell  the  truth,  that  doesn’t  worry  us  much.  Simply  because  we  want  to  get 
to  the  children  first  and  our  first  and  most  elementary  duty  is  to  them,  to  see 
that  they  have  schools  in  order  to  stop  the  illiteracy  for  coming  generations. 
If  we  do  not  get  to  the  adult  population,  they  will  have  to  die;  but  in  the 
next  generation  we  will  not  have  so  many  illiterates.  The  trouble  has  been 
formerly  that  schools  were  not  provided  for  the  children,  thereby  increasing 
the  number  of  illiterates.  There  is  no  reason  for  opening  schools  for  adults 
when  there  are  none  for  the  children.  It  is  simply  a  question  of  providing 
schools  for  these  children.  We  have  also  to  remember  that  most  of  these 
children  are  out  in  the  country.  We  have  to  remember  that  a  good  many  of 
the  children  are  Indians,  of  pure  Indian  blood.  We  have  to  remember  that 
the  states  are  expending  40  per  cent  of  their  budgets  in  schools  and  could 
expend  very  much  more.  It  stands  to  reason  they  cannot,  unless  their  economic 
status  changes  a  great  deal,  do  much  more.  The  duty  of  the  depart¬ 
ment  is  clear;  we  must  open  the  schools.  The  states  cannot  establish  in  the 
country  or  rural  districts  enough  schools. 

What  kind  of  rural  schools  we  establish  just  now  it  does  not  matter,  just 
so  we  can  have  schools.  We  are  not  very  particular  about  anything.  We 
grab  a  man  or  a  woman  and  put  them  in  a  school  if  they  are  willing  to  teach 
it.  Once  he  is  there,  we  begin  to  ask  some  questions:  what  do  you  know  and 
what  are  you  doing;  and  we  are  trying  to  improve  those  teachers  in  service. 
We  need  a  thousand  teachers  this  year.  Most  of  our  teachers  do  not  have 
more  than  a  primary  school  education,  that  is,  six  years;  some  have  a  little 
more;  some  are  normal  graduates;  but  some  of  them  have  not  even  completed 
primary  school,  they  have  had  not  more  than  four  or  five  years  schooling.  It 
is  sometimes  difficult  to  help  them,  as  they  are  more  or  less  mature  men  and 
women.  They  average  about  twenty-one  years  of  age.  We  have  about  50 
per  cent  men  and  about  50  per  cent  women.  There  is  one  thing  we  do  ask 
and  try  to  find  out — whether  they  have  an  interest  in  this  work,  that  is,  if 
they  have  a  missionary  spirit.  We  ask  of  these  people  a  true  missionary  spirit, 
an  interest  in  social  welfare.  Their  work  has  a  much  wider  and  broader  social 
outlook  than  a  teacher  would  have  ordinarily. 

The  Department  has  established  2,721  rural  schools  this  year.  These 
schools  are  mostly  one  teacher  schools.  Ninety-five  per  cent  of  them  are  only 
one  teacher  schools,  or  were  so  last  year.  We  have  increased  our  rural  schools 
this  year  by  one  thousand.  The  rural  schools  are  the  product  of  four  years’ 
work.  Four  years  ago,  we  did  not  have  a  rural  school  supported  by  this 
Department;  the  Department  of  Education  did  not  establish  rural  schools  in 
Mexico  before.  In  1912,  the  first  revolutionary  government  under  Mr.  Madero 
started  the  national  schools,  but  Mr.  Madero  was  in  office  such  a  short  time 
they  just  started.  We  were  just  getting  to  the  preliminary  work.  We  had 
some  people  in  the  fields  when  Mr.  Madero  was  killed  and  the  next  day  the 
work  dropped  out.  I  mean  the  rural  schools’  work.  When  Mr.  Carranza  came 
in,  there  was  a  similar  movement  for  rural  schools,  but  nothing  was  really 


accomplished  in  that  short  period. 

We  are  now  in  a  position  to  accomplish  a  good  deal  provided  we  have 
the  money.  We  could  then  have  schools  very  fast.  It  is  only  a  question  of 
getting  the  money  necessary  to  establish  new  schools.  The  program  for  next 
year  calls  for  the  establishment  of  one  thousand  schools  more,  for  one  thousand 
teachers  more  for  the  schools  which  are  to  be  established,  and  also  to  make 
the  schools  already  established  two  teacher  schools  instead  of  one  teacher 
schools,  that  is,  we  will  have  two  thousand  teachers  more  than  now.  We  are 
studying  our  budgets  and  you  may  be  sure  that  every  million  we  can  snatch 
off  from  the  department  of  finance  is  being  taken.  I  have  been  thinking  of 
two  thousand  schools  instead  of  one  thousand  schools.  I  do  not  know 
whether  the  financial  status  will  support  my  dream.  We  have  the  thing  down 
to  a  fine  point.  With  one  million  pesos  and  a  quarter,  we  can  establish  one 
thousand  rural  schools.  It  means  just  getting  this  many  millions;  and  getting 
the  millions  is  not  an  easy  matter  when  sometimes  we  have  to  fight  for  one 
hundred  pesos. 

The  nature  of  the  work  in  these  rural  schools  is  without  precedent.  We 
are  not  bothered  with  educational  dogma  of  any  kind.  That  is  a  very  fine 
thing.  We  say  the  rural  school  is  to  create  the  rural  spirit;  that  it  is  very 
essential  to  explain  to  pupils  in  a  very  elementary  way  the  rural  life;  we  say 
the  end  is  to  try  to  incorporate  these  children  into  the  Mexican  family  and  to 
bring  the  parents  into  the  fold  through  them.  Something  is  done  sometimes 
directly  with  the  parents.  In  most  of  the  rural  schools  we  have  night  schools; 
generally  the  young  men  and  young  women  come  to  the  night  schools  to 
learn;  then  we  have  some  kind  of  social  action  with  parents, — and  we  give 
them  whatever  help  we  can.  We  send  out  libraries  and  see  that  special  service 
for' inquiries  is  established  so  that  the  people  out  there  can  send  in  questions 
about  their  problems  and  we  answer  them  through  our  library  department 
here;  but  we  mainly  work  with  the  children  in  the  schools.  We  teach  them 
how  to  read  and  write;  and  while  these  country  schools  are  really  not  much 
more  than  three  hour  schools,  our  main  aim,  our  principal  desire  is  to  teach 
all  these  children  how  to  read  and  write.  There  are  quite  a  number  of  people 
who  do  not  speak  Spanish.  We  teach  them  the  language. 

In  each  state,  to  supplement  the  work  done  in  the  rural  schools,  there  is 
established  at  least  one  elementary  school  as  fine  as  we  can  get  it,  something 
practical,  teaching  what  the  people  in  the  community  can  hope  to  attain  and 
can  understand.  We  establish  this  elementary  school  in  the  capital  or  one  of 
the  larger  cities  or  towns  of  the  state;  through  that  school  we  are  teaching 
the  school  system  for  the  state.  We  have,  of  course,  in  some  of  the  smaller 
villages  an  elementary  school.  We  have  vocational  schools  in  some  parts  of 
Mexico  and  we  are  supplementing  the  work  of  the  states.  Here  in  Mexico  City 
we  have  something  worth  while,  open  air  schools.  These  schools  are  interesting 
because  they  are  schools  for  the  slums,  for  destitute  children,  put  up  at  the 
very  cheapest  cost.  They  are  quite  a  success.  We  found  ourselves  unable  to 
build  enough  schools  for  Mexico  City.  We  had  to  devise  a  very  cheap  struc¬ 
ture  and  so  we  devised  the  open  air  schools.  This  is  a  new  project,  without 
any  previous  example,  a  striking-out  on  the  new  education,  on  the  new  idea 
of  doing,  action,  activity.  It  will  bring  about  a  great  change  with  these 
children.  It  is  social;  it  is  a  grouping  of  the  children;  it  is  advancing  them  and 
giving  them  some  of  the  education  they  ought  to  have. 

I  want  to  tell  you  how  we  are  training  our  rural  school  teachers.  To 
begin  with  they  have  very  little  education,  little  or  no  training,  but  they  have 
enthusiasm  for  their  work;  in  that  they  excel.  They  are  really  vei-y  deficient 
in  their  technique;  they  want  to  do  things  but  they  cannot. 


—43— 


We  have  a  group  of  special  teachers  that  goes  out  into  the  different 
states.  They  gather  these  teachers  together  in  some  central  place  and  hold 
institutes.  Their  work  is  to  help  the  rural  teachers  and  their  pupils.  In  this 
group  there  is  an  educator  expert  in  rural  education;  in  fact,  each  one  of  the 
group  is  a  specialist  on  some  subject  to  help  these  rural  teachers.  One  is  an 
expert  in  home  economics;  another  is  an  expert  in  matters  pertaining  to  agri¬ 
culture.  These  experts  are  the  teachers  in  the  institute.  They  give  to  the 
teachers  who  come  to  them  from  the  country  schools  all  the  help  and  instruc¬ 
tion  they  can  for  the  few  weeks  they  are  there.  Sometimes  they  establish  their 
institute  in  one  of  the  small  villages  and  the  village  school  is  used  as  an 
example  for  the  institute.  There  is  no  time  wasted  in  taking  examples  of 
schools  in  New  York  or  somewhere  else.  We  work  to  make  these  teachers 
better  able  to  use  whatever  material  they  have  at  hand.  Here  is  your  plant 
and  your  children,  now  do  the  best  you  can  and  we  will  help  you  to  do  it,  say 
the  group  teachers.  They  go  out  and  do  whatever  needs  to  be  done.  They 
vaccinate,  they  give  lectures  on  hygiene,  they  give  entertainments  and  try  to 
start  some  social  life;  they  get  the  mothers  to  come  and  they  teach  them  how 
to  work;  they  organize  a  parents  association;  anything,  any  action  or  social 
work  according  to  the  conditions.  When  they  get  through  with  that  village, 
the  teachers  return  to  their  villages  and  their  schools  and  the  institute  goes 
somewhere  else  to  do  the  same  kind  of  work  for  other  teachers  and  other 
people.  The  traveling  institute  will  be  the  greatest  help  for  these  people  in 
the  future.  In  time  we  hope  to  extend  its  influence  in  every  state  and  to 
every  community.  We  believe  it  will  bring  about  many  changes  in  these 
communities. 


QUESTION:  How  many  of  these  groups  are  there  and  how  much  terri¬ 
tory  will  they  cover  this  year? 

ANSWER:  There  are  six  of  these  groups  functioning  now,  since  the 
first  of  May.  By  the  end  of  the.  year  they  will  have  covered  one-half  of  the 
Republic  or  one-half  of  the  teachers  that  we  have  sent  out  into  these  rural 
districts  to  rural  schools.  Next  year  we  have  plans  to  increase  these  traveling 
groups  so  as  to  cover  the  entire  Republic  and  perhaps  visit  some  of  these 
places  twice. 

QUESTION:  Are  the  foreign  interests  that  are  exploiting  Mexico  doing 
anything  to  back  up  the  government  giving  the  Mexican  people  an  education? 
Do  the  interests  in  Tampico  and  Vera  Cruz  see  to  it  that  the  people  who  are 
serving  them  and  whose  wealth  they  are  taking  away  are  gaining  an  education? 

ANSWER:  Yes  and  no.  Some  of  these  companies  have  schools  for  their 
employees;  but  they  are  exceptions.  Of  course,  they  have  no  legal  obligation 
to  do  it  and  we  should  not  expect  them  to  go  out  to  make  charity  to  us;  they 
might  do  it  if  they  were  a  little  more  humane.  But  they  do  not.  Since  last 
year  we  have  received,  from  two  oil  companies  in  the  petroleum  region,  nearly 
eighty  thousand  pesos,  given  in  two  different  sums,  which  we  have  used  for  open 
air  schools.  They  were  given  to  the  Department  to  be  used  in  that  way.  So 
far  as  I  know  these  are  the  only  gifts  we  have  received.  As  you  know  these 
people  are  not  in  welfare  work. 

The  federal  government  is  establishing  agricultural  schools.  The  Presi¬ 
dent  personally  has  been  directing  this,  because  he  has  so  m.uch  interest  in  the 
matter.  He  is  establishing  four  large  agricultural  schools  in  as  many  regions 
of  Mexico.  They  have  bought  large  haciendas  and  are  building  agricultural 
schools  for  the  young  people  of  15  years  of  age.  They  vdll  bring  them  from 
all  over,  for  these  will  be  boarding  schools  with  two  year  courses.  They  will 
be  taught  agricultural  science.  The  President  has  established  four,  which  ai’e 


—44— 


nearly  completed,  and  he  is  planning  to  build  four  more  next  year. 

QUESTION:  What  does  the  C.  R.  O.  M.  do?  Has  it  not  a  number  of 
night  schools? 

ANSWER;  Yes,  and  they  really  work.  They  have  been  establishing  a 
good  many  schools.  They  work  with  us  to  get  schools.  It  is  through  them 
that  many  schools  have  been  established.  We  have  a  number  of  working  men’s 
schools,  night  schools  supported  by  this  department. 

QUESTION:  What  is  the  minimum  and  maximum  wage  of  your  rural 
school  teachers?  * 

ANSWER:  For  the  one-teacher  rural  schools  we  have  only  one  salary — 
two  pesos  a  day,  72‘0  pesos  a  year.  Next  year  we  are  going  to  change  that 
and  make  it  a  minimum  salary,  and  then  work  on  a  scale  of  salaries  up  as 
high  as  four  pesos  a  day. 

QUESTION:  Are  the  Protestant  schools  doing  good  work? 

ANSWER:  Very  much  so,  for  two  reasons.  One  is  that  most  of  the 
teachers  put  in  these  schools  have  a  missionary  spirit,  which  is  what  we  need, 
and  also  some  of  the  schools  established  by  these  missionaries  for  their 
churches  have  brought  new  methods  and  new  ideas  which  have  helped  us  in 
many  ways,  new  methods,  new  movements,  which  have  served  as  a  guide  for 
our  system.  But  there  have  not  been  so  many.  Sometimes  they  have  tried 
to  match  the  public  schools  instead  of  going  out  where  there  were  no  schools. 
Sometimes  they  have  tried  to  set  up  a  school  here  or  in  the  capital  of  a  state 
where  the  need  was  not  so  great.  I  have  always  felt  that  the  missionary 
should  be  where  the  schools  were  limited  in  extent,  where  they  might  do  more 
good  and  reach  more  of  the  people  who  would  not  be  reached  in  any  other 
way. 

QUESTION:  Is  there  anything  in  your  present  educational  or  religious 
laws  that  would  prohibit  people  who  were  interested  establishing  schools? 

ANSWER:  Not  so  long  as  they  comply  with  the  federal  regulations. 

QUESTION:  Is  it  not  true  that  many  of  the- mission  schools  in  Mexico 
City  were  here  before  the  public  schools? 

ANSWER:  Catholic  schools,  yes;  but  not  the  Protestant  mission  schools. 
They  came  in  1860,  1871  or  1872.  The  first  schools  in  Mexico  City  were  the 
church  schools. 

QUESTION;  How  do  you  provide  for  your  buildings? 

ANSWER:  In  reality  we  do  not  provide;  we  ask  the  village  for  a  hut 
or  building.  It  is  a  local  responsibility.  And  we  want  to  keep  it  so.  We  have 
no  money  for  buildings,  and  inasmuch  as  we  give  them  a  teacher,  supplies 
and  everything  else,  they  should  be  able  to  furnish  these  buildings. 

QUESTION:  What  standard  equipment  has  each  school  in  these  rural 
communities? 

ANSWER:  We  give  them  books  and  blackboards  and  desks  (not  standard 
American  desks,  but  something  to  sit  on),  one  or  two  maps,  a  Mexican  flag — 
and  permit  me  to  say  this  is  important,  for  in  many  cases  these  children  have 
never  seen  a  flag  before.  Very  modestly.  We  are  not  up  to  the  standard 
of  California,  Illinois  or  any  of  those  states. 


The  Labor  Movement 

SENOR  LUIS  MORONES,  Secretary  of  Industry,  Commerce  and  Labor,  gave 
an  interview  Friday  evening,  August  6.  Senor  Salomon  de  la  Selva  was 
the  interpreter. 


—45— 


Senor  Morones  said: 

One  of  the  questions  that  has  aroused  great  interest  in  the  United  States 
concerning  Mexico  is  the  development  of  the  oil  industry  in  Mexico.  The 
chief  cause  of  trouble  is  the  hurry  in  which  events  have  succeeded  one  an¬ 
other.  Oil  was  discovered  in  Mexico  and  its  exploitation  began  almost  over 
night,  which  brought  about  many  disputed  interests.  Oil  was  an  unexpected 
thing  in  Mexico.  Investing  interests  crowded  into  Mexico  instantly. 

From  1917  until  the  regulations  of  the  oil  laws  were  passed  last  year, 
the  oil  industry  in  Mexico  was  controlled  by  transitory  laws.  Previous  to  1917 
there  were  practically  no  acts  regulating  the  oil  industry  in  Mexico.  All  in¬ 
terests  did  whatever  they  wanted.  After  1917  there  v.'^ere  transitory  laws. 
Recently  there  have  been  permanent  laws  passed.  The  vested  interests  since 
the  laws  have  been  controlling  them  have  been  very  bitter  and  have  been 
fighting  us.  Only  a  few  days  or  a  few  weeks  since  did  the  oil  interests  realize 
Mexico  had  every  right  to  do  what  she  has  done. 

In  a  short  while,  Ramirez  Carrillo,  head  of  the  Legal  Department  of  In¬ 
dustry,  Commerce  and  Labor,  will  explain  these  oil  laws  and  the  difficulties  that 
arose  on  account  of  these  laws;  difficulties,  I  am  happy  to  say,  which  only  a 
short  while  ago  lessened  considerably. 

I  will  now  speak  to  you  briefly  concerning  the  labor  movement.  The 
labor  question  is  closely  related  to  the  petroleum  legislation,  because  previous 
to  the  constitutional  amendments  in  Mexico  labor  suffered  because  there  was 
no  check  on  oil  companies  requiring  proper  treatment  towards  the  field  laborer 
on  the  part  of  these  companies,  or  on  the  part  of  ail  kinds  of  companies,  in¬ 
cluding  Mexican.  Previous  to  the  revolution  of  1910,  which  was  nothing  but 
one  revolution  after  another,  which  did  not  better  the  laborers,  the  average 
salary  was  ten  or  fifteen  centavos  a  day.  The  average  weekly  wages  were 
between  one  peso  and  a  peso  and  a  half.  With  the  revolution,  a  different  atti¬ 
tude  came.  It  was  possible  to  enact  the  1917  constitution  and,  with  the  1917 
constitution,  to  organize  all  labor;  but  these  results  follow  sixteen  years  of 
almost  unceasing  revolution.  The  present  wages  for  field  labor  are  now  one 
peso  and  a  half  per  day  and  for  industrial  labor  four  pesos  per  day.  The  life 
of  the  laborer  naturally  has  changed  a  great  deal  for  the  better  since  these 
laws  have  been  passed  and  due  to  the  fact  that  labor  has  organized  and 
maintains  the  best  relations  with  the  government  and  will  continue  to  maintain 
them.  It  is  not  mixing  in  the  government,  but  keeps  to  its  own  affairs.  The 
revolution  made  it  possible  for  this  government  to  have  land.  Whereas  be¬ 
fore  we  had  serfs,  we  now  have  people  with  their  lands.  These  revolutionary 
governments  brought  troubles  into  Mexico  but  they  have  done  away  with 
many  of  the  troubles. 

The  labor  movement  in  Mexico  is  not  as  it  is  frequently  painted  in  the 
headlines  in  the  United  States.  The  labor  movement  in  Mexico  has  much  in¬ 
fluence  for  it  to  do  good.  Mexico  had  to  change  its  systems  over  night  as  it 
were.  There  was  a  change  of  system  throughout  the  country,  changed  by  the 
Constitution  of  1917,  looking  towards  fairness  and  justice.  It  was  not  possible 
to  have  a  fully  ordered  organization  without  trouble,  but  this  trouble  has  been 
caused  principally  by  those  who  have  been  fearing  the  results  of  the  law  and 
the  enforcement  of  labor  rights.  The  foreign  capitalist  and  many  others  were 
not  interest  in  the  law  nor  in  the  enforcement  of  it.  Before  the  poor  working 
man  received  only  50  centavos  for  his  day’s  work,  but  now  it  is  different  from 
when  he  worked  those  long  hard  days.  Well,  when  all  this  was  changed  the 
capitalist  howled,  both  the  native  and  the  foreign  capitalist,  and  in  the  United 
States  they  said  there  was  no  protection  for  American  capital.  You  people  in 
the  United  States  have  not  had  this  difficulty,  you  have  not  had  to  fight  this 


—46 


way  for  the  welfare  of  the  worker.  You  people  have  not  had  to  deal  with  such 
conditions.  In  the  United  States,  the  head  of  a  firm  or  of  a  business  has  to 
work.  He  comes  to  his  office  regularly.  He  comes  to  his  office  to  work.  But 
here  in  Mexico  it  was  different.  He  spent  all  his  time  and  money  in  Europe 
and  going  around  the  world.  If  there  were  any  difficulties  in  finances  in  his 
firm,  he  solved  them  by  reducing  the  wages  and  increasing  hours  of  work. 
These  people  have  raised  up  and  howled  that  Mexico  is  not  the  place  for  good 
investments  because  their  property  is  not  protected,  in  Mexico.  You  people 
who  have  come  to  Mexico  cannot  see  that  the  government  has  never  tried  to 
regulate  the  laws  for  all  in  a  proper  way.  That  is  one  of  the  things  these 
revolutionary  governments  have  tried  to  do;  they  have  tried  to  improve  condi¬ 
tions,  to  right  the  wrongs  for  the  poor  fellow.  If  there  are  improvem.ents  in 
production,  the  labor  that  helps  to  produce  it  should  benefit  from  the 
improvements. 

The  government  has  also  demanded  from  the  laboring  classes  and  or¬ 
ganizations  that  they  bear  their  duties  as  well  as  the  man  higher  up.  There 
has  been  much  discussion  in  the  United  States  as  well  as  in  Mexico  on  account 
of  the  demands  of  organized  labor.  The  government  recognizes  it  as  a  great 
force  but  it  does  not  let  it  go;  neither  do  the  laborers  let  it  go.  The  govern¬ 
ment  in  1917  realized  the  inherent  rights  of  labor  to  make  demands  and  have 
those  demands  granted.  It  has  also  told  labor,  “you  have  duties  to  perform, 
remembering  what  the  country  can  bear.” 

One  of  the  difficulties  in  not  having  real,  exact,  clear,  impartial  informa¬ 
tion  regarding  things  in  Mexico  is  that  this  information  is  not  always  impartial. 
Mining  men  in  the  United  States,  people  who  want  to  invest  in  mines,  ask  for 
reports  from  the  miners  here.  People  who  want  to  trade  m  certain  things  ask 
that  information  from  people  who  trade  here.  They  ask  the  people  in  the  same 
commercial,  industrial  line  for  this  information,  who  are  interested  in  keeping 
other  people  out  of  the  field,  in  not  having  any  competitors,  and  their  reports 
from  these  people  who  are  interested  are  not  always  good,  impartial  reports. 
The  report  usually  given  is  not  favorable  to  us. 

But  we  can  only  try  to  fulfill  the  Constitution  of  the  revolution.  Many 
mistakes  have  been  committed,  many  errors.  This  govecnment  has  been  made 
up  of  men  who  have  had  to  draw  their  experiences  from  the  affairs  of  life. 
Men  of  the  Calles  government  are  men  of  humble  origin  and  liable  to  make 
mistakes  or  to  fail  in  their  effort  to  see  that  the  program  of  the  revolutionary 
constitution  is  carried  out.  It  is  a  very  great  undertaking  that  has  been  start¬ 
ed;  and  all  are  trying  to  carry  it  on  with  much  difficulties. 

A  great  deal  has  been  said  about  the  religious  difficulty  of  the  present 
government,  which  is  seeing  that  the  laws  are  complied  with.  It  has  had 
difficulties  with  the  oil  people  in  seeing  that  the  laws  concerning  oil  are 
obeyed,  difficulties  with  the  land  owners  in  seeing  that  the  agrarian  laws  are 
enforced,  and  now  with  the  Roman  Catholic  Church  in  seeing  that  the  laws 
are  enforced.  It  has  had  difficulties  since  the  enactment  of  the  constitution 
of  1857,  declaring  that  all  churches  should  obey  and  that  all  their  property 
belonged  to  the  nation;  and  then  since  the  constitution  of  1917,  also  the  same 
thing.  The  present  government  proposes  to  see  that  the  constitution  of  1917 
is  put  into  effect,  that  its  different  provisions  are  carried  into  effect  and  obeyed. 
Since  the  church  did  not  obey,  in  accordance  with  this  constitution,  the  govern¬ 
ment  has  made  certain  regulations  regarding  it  and  education.  Among  these 
regulations  is  one  that  religion  shall  not  be  taught  in  the  primary  schools  of 
the  country;  that  no  child  shall  be  taught  religion  in  the  school  until  he  has 
reached  a  certain  age  where  he  can  make  choice  of  what  religion  to  follow. 
That  is  what  the  Roman  Catholic  Church  did  not  want;  they  did  not  want  any 


—47— 


other  religion;  but  the  law  gives  all  a  right  to  thirtk.  Another  regnjla-tion  igi 
that  the  church  buildings  belong  to  the  nation.  They  have  been  belonging  to 
the  nation  since  1857.  The  1917  constitution  does  not  change  the  provisions 
in  that  fact.  The  state  is  the  owner  of  these  church  buildings.  It  so  happened 
that  the  owner  did  not  know  where  all  these  buildings  were.'  It  was  re<^uired 
that  the  priest  in  charge  in  each  church  should  be  responsible  to  the  govern¬ 
ment  or  to  the  state  for  this  property  and  should  register  as  being  responsible 
for  this  church  so  that  any  change  there  from  one  priest  to  another  would  be 
known  to  the  state  and  how  the  property  was  administered.  The  church  has 
brought  about  the  so-called  religious  conflict  because  it  did  not  care  to  comply 
with  the  law.  The  nation  cannot  do  otherwise  than  enforce  the  law,  which  is 
the  origin  of  the  religious  problem  and  has  seemed  such  a  serious  problem. 

I  want  to  emphasize  the  duties  and  the  rights  of  laborers  as  organized 
laborers.  They  are  all  expected  to  fulfill  their  duties  and  then  their  demands 
and  rights  are  considered. 


The  Oil  Laws 

IMMEDIATELY  following  the  Moron es  interview,  Senor  Gonzalo  Ramirez  Car- 
I  rillo,  head  of  the  legal  division  of  the  department  of  industry,  commerce,  and 
labor,  discussed  the  Mexican  oil  laws  through  Senor  de  la  Selva  as  interpreter. 
He  said: 

I  am  going  to  give  an  outline  of  the  oil  laws  in  Mexico.  The  Government 
is  doing  something  Worthwhile  for  the  Mexican.  They  believe  they  are  work¬ 
ing  honestly  and  there  is  no  reason  to  keep  in  the  dark  this  oil  situation.  The 
Mexican  laws  concerning  oil  and  mining  in  general  have  their  origin  in  the 
time  when  Mexico  was  acquired  by  the  Spanish.  The  Spanish  Crov/n  reserved 
all  rights  to  the  soil  and  the  sub-soil.  This  was  in  the  body  of  laws  enacted  by 
Alfonso  the  Wise.  During  the  reign  of  Peter  III,  there  was  a  deviation  from 
this  because  that  king  wanted  to  grant  certain  religious  institutions  the  right 
to  maintain  here  and  gave  them  the  rights  to  the  soil  and  sub-soil.  That 
division  by  King  Peter  did  not  last  long  because  under  the  reign  of  Phillip  II 
they  considered  that  these  religious  institutions  did  not  develop  fully  the  soil 
and  the  sub-soil  and  enacted  a  decree  taking  back  all  these  lands  to  the  Crown, 
reserving  the  right  to  give  to  these  subjects  the  right  to  exploit  this  land. 

Since  the  ordinance  of  King  Phillip  there  has  been  almost  no  change  at  all 
in  these  laws  regarding  soil  and  the  sub-soil,  especially  regarding  the  sub-soil. 
These  laws  become  retroactive  in  Mexico  as  by  the  ordinance  of  1783,  which 
were  for  a  short  time;  but  were  changed  again  in  1784;  that  is  according  to  the 
original  documents.  I  have  brought  with  me  these  documents  which  can  be 
examined.  The  ordinances  of  1783  decreed  that  all  products  of  the  sub-soil 
belonged  to  the  crown,  not  only  metals  and  fuel  but  “Betunis”,  which  means 
the  juice  of  the  earth,  which  includes  petroleum,  later  discovered.  These 
ordinances  enacted  by  the  Spanish  Crown  in  1783  were  included  in  the  free 
Mexico,  on  account  of  the  fact  that  in  the  treaty  signed  between  the  revolu¬ 
tionary  forces  that  made  Mexico  it  was  understood  that  the  Spanish  laws 
would  be  the  laws  of  free  Mexico  until  free  Mexico  had  time  enough  to  enact 
its  own  proper  laws. 

In  1884,  for  the  first  time  Mexican  legislators  concerned  themselves  re¬ 
garding  the  sub-soil,  granting  the  products  of  the  soil  to  the  owner  of  the  soil, 
but  the  owner  remaining  subject  to  whatever  laws  the  state  might  pass  upon 
that  exploitation.  Article  10  of  Chapter  4  of  the  Laws  of  1884  were  the 
first  passed;  then  again  in  1892  and  still  later  in  1909  laws  to  the  same  effect 


48— 


were  passed.  Note  first,  the  state  did  not  surrender  the  sub-soil  entirely  to  the 
owner  of  the  soil,  but  it  made  it  possible  for  the  owner  of  the  soil  to  use  it. 
The  principles  from  time  immemorial  regulating  property  in  Mexico  are  as 
follows:  Full  property  is  enjoyed  when  the  enjoyment  of  that  full  privilege 
does  not  interfere  with  the  general  w’elfare  or  oppose  the  regulations  of  the 
welfare  of  the  nation.  Under  this  principle  there  are  two  kinds  of  domain, 
the  domain  to  use  and  the  domain  or  the  full  privilege  to  do  with  property 
whatever  the  owner  wants.  Those  are  the  principles  regarding  property  that 
embodied  in  the  civil  code  of  1872  and  the  civil  code  of  1884, 

According  to  general  regulations  of  law,  there  are  three  kinds  of  prop¬ 
erty,  or  there  are  three  principles  that  govern  property.  First,  the  principle 
of  eminent  domain.  The  principle  of  eminent  domain  is  that  it  is  held  by  the 
state.  The  state  has  the  right  of  eminent  domain  in  its  jurisdiction,  to  take 
it  whenever  necessary.  Also  this  principle  of  eminent  domain  provides  for 
whatever  policy  or  other  regulations  it  is  considered  necessary  for  the  state. 
Then  there  is  full  domain  on  the  part  of  the  owner  or  citizen  in  the  state,  to 
enjoy,  to  own,  to  exploit.  Then  there  is  the  semi-full  domain  or  the  right 
whereby  the  owner  owns  but  somebody  else  uses  it  for  exploitations.  The  code 
of  1884  was  a  deviation  from  these  principles.  Therefore,  the  legislators  of 
1917  went  back  to  the  principles  which  the  people  were  accustomed  to  before 
the  civil  code  of  1884,  establishing  laws  which  were  accepted  in  Mexico.  These 
principles  are  in  Article  27  of  the  1917  Constitution.  Article  27  defines  the 
various  kinds  of  property — whether  eminent  domain,  full  domain  or  otherwise. 
It  does  not  give  the  state  all  right  to  use  and  enjoy  the  sub-soil.  It  grants 
the  state  a  semi-full  domain;  the  state  has  the  domain,  but  someone  else  uses 
and  enjoys  it.  And  the  state  granting  the  use  to  the  sub-soil  is  not  only 
giving  a  favor  but  fulfilling  a  duty.  It  is  oblig'ated  to  grant  the  use  of  the 
sub-soil  to  the  citizens  of  the  Republic. 

Those  that  voted  against  Article  27  of  the  Constitution  made  so  much 
trouble  with  it,  it  was  necessary  for  the  Supreme  Court,  which  is  the  highest 
judicial  tribunal  in  the  country,  to  pass  upon  and  establish  the  correct  inter¬ 
pretation  of  Article  27  so  that  it  did  not  injure  the  rights,  legal  or  acquired, 
under  laws  previous  to  the  1917  Constitution.  According  to  the  constitution 
if  there  are  five  court  decisions  that  bear  upon  the  same  matter  and  that  agree, 
that  establishes  precedent  which  is  to  be  embodied  in  the  law.  The  trouble 
made  against  Article  27  compelled  the  Supreme  Court  to  give  these  five  deci¬ 
sions.  In  accordance  with  the  article'  of  the  Constitution  and  with  these  deci¬ 
sions  of  the  Supreme  Court,  the  petroleum  law  recently  enacted  has  embodied 
the  provisions  that  all  those  who  have  legal  and  acquired  rights  in  the  sub-soil 
will  continue  in  these  rights,  but  it  establishes  whether  the  man  is  the  owner 
of  the  soil  or  whether  he  is  the  possessor  only  of  the  oil  rights  which  he  has 
acquired.  In  conformity  with  this  law  following  rights  will  be  granted  without 
the  holder  thereof,  the  sessionaire,  making  any  expenditures:  all  rights  derived 
from  lands  for  working  petroleum  exploitation,  which  work  should  have  taken 
place  before  the  enactment  of  the  1917  constitution,  that  is  the  first  of  May, 
1917,  when  the  Article  27  went  into  effect;  all  the  rights  derived  from  con- 
ti'acts  before  the  first  of  May,  1917,  by  the  owner  of  the  soil  or  all  those  that 
should  be  legally  represented.  If  a  company  was  formed  previous  to  1917  to 
exploit  the  sub-soil,  its  rights  continue  until  the  company  is  finally  terminated. 
Here  a  company  lasts  fifty  years  or  more.  In  spite  of  all  previous  legislation 
of  Mexico  establishing  that  any  foreigner  could  not  hold  property  within  certain 
limits,  there  are  properties  all  the  way  inside.  In  spite  of  that  fact  the  present 
government  has  granted  foreigners  who  came  in  good  faith  to  invest  in  prop¬ 
erty  within  these  limits  full  rights. 


—49— 


Let  me  explain  how  to  go  about  proving  that  the  rights  which  the  law 
grants  were  really  acquired.  The  laws  of  1909  demanded  in  order  to  consider 
the  owner  of  the  soil  as  having  ownership  of  the  sub-soil  that  he  should  have 
exploited  the  sub-soil.  That  is,  the  man  who  owns  the  soil  is  not  the  owner 
of  the  sub-soil.  The.  exploitation  of  the  sub-soil  was  necessary  in  order  to 
own  it.  A  fight  was  had  over  that,  of  course,  over  the  sub-soil.  Present 
legislation  is  simpler  than  that.  Then  in  order  to  prove  that  a  man  had  a  right 
to  the  sub-soil,  he  had  to  prove  he  had  worked  or  exploited  the  sub-soil.  Now 
he  has  to  prove  only  that  he  at  least  had  the  intention  of  exploiting  the  sub¬ 
soil;  that  he  was  ready  to  contract  or  had  contracted  to  exploit  the  sub-soil, 
or  some  such  thing. 

Now  let  us  take  the  moral  side  of  the  problem.  As  Mr.  Morones  has  told 
you,  the  discovery  of  oil  was  an  upstart  thing.  It  was  an  upstart  industry.  It 
was  discovered  over  night,  as  it  were.  It  brought  into  Mexico  men  of  all 
kinds  who  wanted  to  have  something  from  it.  It  brought  into  Mexico  men  of 
good  faith,  but  it  also  brought  into  Mexico  men  of  bad  faith,  adventurers. 
These  adventurers  and  gentlemen  of  industry  were  trying  to  get  hold  of  this 
instant  discovery,  wealth,  by  methods  that  were  not  legal;  they  tried  to  acquire 
rights  over  petroleum  property  by  methods  that  were  not  legal.  They  had  to 
deal  with  poor  Mexican  people  who  knew  not  the  value  of  the  land  and  they 
applied  all  kinds  of  measures  to  get  their  rights  away.  Very  often  these 
adventurers  by  foul  means  obtained  titles  to  properties.  Then  there  are  other 
titles.  There  are  people  or  companies  who  are  honest  and  acquired  their  titles 
in  good  faith,  but  these  titles  are  not  good.  That  is,  the  adventurer  sells  his 
title  to  these  people  who  buy  in  good  faith,  they  not  knowing  that  the  title  is 
not  legal. 

Nevertheless,  the  government  is  trying  to  find  a  solution  for  all  these 
problems.  It  has  found  a  solution.  It  will  confirm  all  rights  of  title  legally 
acquired  by  either  fair  means  or  foul  means,  by  considering  the  good  inten¬ 
tions,  whether  these  people  previous  to  1917  performed  some  work  on  the  land 
or  entered  into  a  contract  for  the  exploitation  of  the  sub-soil  of  that  land. 
The  government  could  not  make  any  more  liberal  offer  or  concession. 

Therefore,  in  the  first  part  of  Article  14  it  is  established  that  all  rights 
will  be  confirmed  by  means  of  the  people  or  companies  showing  that  they  had 
performed  works  of  exploitation  for  the  petroleum  before  the  first  of  May, 
1917.  It  says  nothing  about  whether  these  titles  have  been  legally  or  foully 
acquired,  but  solely  whether  exploitation  or  work  has  been  done  on  the  land 
previous  to  1917.  As  you  see  the  government  has  been  more  than  generous, 
more  than  liberal,  more  than  could  have  been  expected. 

In  order  for  you  to  see  how  this  exploitation  was  taken  and  the  titles 
acquired,  I  am  going  to  tell  you  a  story.  After  the  conquerors  were  dead  (the 
conquerors  were  not  afraid  of  the  Indians),  the  people  who  came  to  colonize 
Mexico  were  afraid  to  come  as  the  conquerors  had  done  and  acquire  the  land. 
Therefore,  they  formed  themselves  into  groups  or  companies  and  established 
somewhat  of  a  town  and  exploited  it  as  a  group.  They  held  titles  to  these 
lands  granted  them  by  the  king.  The  kings  in  that  manner  would  pay  these 
men  for  services  they  had  performed  by  giving  them  title  to  these  lands. 
Many  of  these  people  were  of  religious  orders  and  wanted  to  establish  their 
church.  Now,  the  agencies  for  these  first  settlers  and  conquerors  and  their 
descendants  who  had  inherited  these  properties  and  titles  began  to  do  away 
with  them  and  stop  working  them  and  began  selling  them  to  Indian  com¬ 
munities  who  continued  with  this  land  abandoned  by  the  first  settlers.  This 
property  remained  then  in  the  hands  of  these  primitive  Indians,  Indian  com¬ 
munities,  until  petroleum  was  discovered.  Usually  it  was  worth  about  fifty 
centavos  a  hectare.  The  reason  it  was  worth  so  little  was  because  there  were 

—50— 


no  highways.  The  Indians  had  had  it  because  it  was  so  worthless.  The 
Indians,  primitive,  ignorant,  were  not  careful  to  hand  it  down  to  their  children 
as  they  had  the  right.  Suddenly  oil  was  discovered.  These  ignorant  Indians 
had  no  titles  to  their  lands,  except  the  initial  titles  from  the  feudal  barons; 
then  the  evil  lawyers  who  were  employed  for  the  people  who  wanted  this 
land  (for  you  all  know  rich  men  can  have  good  lawyers)  were  working  to¬ 
gether  to  get  this  land  away  from  the  poor  Indians.  It  was  a  case  of  the  clever 
man  dispoiling  the  ignorant.  In  this  way  oil  companies  acquired  lands,  ac¬ 
quired  titles  to  some  of  these  lands  where  the  Indians  had  no  titles.  They  had 
only  possession  from  a  long  time  back.  To  acquix’e  all  these  old  titles  it 
caused  all  these  lawyers  to  work,  for  they  could  not  legalize  them. 

Most  of  the  oil  companies  took  care  of  legalizing  the  titles  of  the  oil 
lands  they  acquired,  but  a  few  oil  companies  were  not  thus  careful;  they  were 
not  careful  to  legalize  their  rights  to  these  oil  lands  according  to  the  legisla¬ 
tion  in  force  previous  to  1917.  It  is  the  same  civil  legislation  in  force  now. 
And  these  few  companies  that  were  not  careful  now  try  to  keep  up  the 
objections  concerning  the  petroleum  law.  Most  of  the  companies  and  chiefly 
the  larger  companies,  however,  clearly  understood  the,  game  regarding  this,  and 
they  complied  with  the  law.  The  companies  with  bad  titles  have  been  making- 
all  the  difficulties,  because  the  government  is  not  at  all  interested  in  anything 
but  in  a  proper  exploitation  of  this  wealth  of  Mexico. 

Previous  to  the  law  recently  enacted  it  was  the  custom  of  the  government 
if  oil  ex;ploitation  had  been  carried  on  not  to  bother  if  the  titles  to  the  land 
were  legally  acquired.  That  is,  the  government  did  not  look  into  the  titles 
of  the  companies  asking  for  exploitation  permits.  Even  now,  after  the  enact¬ 
ment  of  the  petroleum  law,  the  department  grants  previous  permits  to  those 
who  have  been  exploiting  petroleum  in  Mexico.  Sometimes  it  is  a  long  time 
that  is  granted  them  to  prove  the  legality  of  their  titles.  That  is,  they  are 
not  forced  to  close  down  immediately,  but  rather  can  have  a  long  term  or 
period  to  prove  their  titles  or  rights  under  which  they  may  woi’k.  Not  only  in 
Mexico  but  in  no  other  civilized  country  is  a  man  allowed  to  exercise  a  right 
he  cannot  prove  he  has.  Nevertheless,  the  government  in  order  to  find  a  solu¬ 
tion  to  this  problem  has  been  very  liberal.  It  doesn’t  demand  that  these  com¬ 
panies  who  have  been  exploiting  people  legally  trace  all  their  rights  but  will 
accept  proofs  that  bear  the  appearance  of  being  legal.  It  doesn’t  put  into 
force  fully  the  regulation  of  existing  laws.  It  gives  them  as  grace  to  prove 
whatever  they  have  according  to  previous  laws.  Now,  in  spite  of  the  fact 
that  the  government  has  taken  this  attitude,  this  small  group  of  oil  people  who 
cannot  prove  the  legality  of  their  titles  have  been  making  a  great  deal  of 
trouble  for  the  government  instead  of  blaming  their  own  lawyers  for  the 
trouble  they  have  been  creating. 

Whatever  the  legislation,  the  government  does  not  want  to  take  over 
property  from  them.  The  government  is  not  interested  in  taking  the  property 
away  but  in  having  things  righted.  On  June  8  this  department  of  industry 
issued  an  order,  called  an  “acuerdo”,  considering  that  these  people  had  per¬ 
haps  invested  money  in  oil  exploitation  in  good  faith,  considering  that  if  an 
oil  well  came  out  and  was  no  good  they  had  to  dig  up  another,  considering 
that  it  was  not  good  policy  to  put  anything  in  the  way  of  these  oil  exploiters, 
and  because  of  a  written  petition  sent  to  the  department  by  these  oil  people. 
This  acuerdo  granted  them  six  months  in  which  to  prove  their  rights.  And 
these  people,  instead  of  being  thankful  for  this  grace  that  the  Department 
had  granted  in  order  to  do  them  a  favor,  began  to  say  that  their  rights  were 
not  protected  in  Mexico  and  that  we  wanted  to  take  their  property  away  from 
them.  In  spite  of  that  the  department  has  told  these  people,  “If  you  have  any 


—51— 


kick  coining,  come  over  and  we  will  settle  things.”  The  department  has  no 
further  desire  than  that  exploitation  shall  be  thoroughly  conducted. 

Fortunately,  most  of  them  if  not  all  have  come  now  to  where  they  see  the 
point  of  view  of  the  government  and  are  trying  to  work  in  accord  with  the 

government;  see  that  the*  government  does  not  want  to  put  any  obstacles  to 

this  wealth,  but  seek^  to  benefit  the  exploiters  themselves,  the  government, 

and  the  country  as  well.  If  mistakes  have  been  made  on  the  part  of  the 

Mexican  government  on  these  questions,  it  has  been  through  ignorance  and 
not  through  bad  faith.  The  government  wishes  to  stand  on  a  substantial  plane, 
which  is  the  only  way  of  being  strong. 


The  Religious  Problem 

SENOR  ADALBERTO  TEJEDA,  Secretary  of  the  Interior,  gave  an  interview 
Saturday  morning,  August  7.  The  stenographic  report  of  the  interview 
was  submitted  to  him  for  examination.  The  following  report  received  his 
approval : 

I  am  extremely  happy  to  know  that  this  group  of  American  students, 
representing  various  vocations  of  life  and  with  the  best  intentions  to  under¬ 
stand  the  real  situation  of  Mexico,  have  come  here  to  find  out  our  real  problem 
and  to  help  us  in  our  efforts  to  solve  the  problems  placed  before  the 
government. 

I  justly  consider  this  representative  group  as  a  general  representation  of 
the  advanced  democracy  of  the  mature  political  organization  which  is  con¬ 
sidered  as  one  of  the  most  advanced  in  this  continent;  and  we  do  believe  that 
this  group  has  come  to  us  to  look  closely  into  these  problems  and  to  investi¬ 
gate  conditions  here  so  as  to  form  an  opinion  of  the  endeavors  of  this  country 
to  help  in  all  possible  ways  to  organize  and  develop  normal  people  for  good 
that  is  waiting  to  be  done  on  this  continent.  We  believe  that  with  your 
moral  standards,  with  your  knowledge  of  social  life  and  social  stability,  you 
may  be  able  to  investigate  with  us  some  of  our  problems  and  help  with  what 
we  are  doing  for  the  people. 

I  limit  myself  to  the  so-called  religious  problem,  because  that  is  the 
special  activity  or  subject  relating  to  this  Department  which  will  interest  you, 
as  I  understand.  I  must  say  at  once  that  the  present  struggle  between  the 
church  and  the  civil  government  is  nothing  new  with  us.  It  started  along 
during  the  colonial  government.  The  church  has  always  been  struggling  with 
the  civil  authorities,  to  whom  it  has  always  been  hostile. 

During  the  colonial  government,  the  church  controlled  most  of  our  civil 
organizations.  It  had  to  condemn  and  combat  the  cause  of  independence. 
When  this  was  near  to  be  attained,  the  church  began  to  plot  in  crder  to  con¬ 
trol  indirectly  the  civil  power,  and  created  therefor  the  empire  of  Iturbide. 
When  the  empire  failed,  they  never  stopped  in  their  efforts  to  keep  political 
control.  The  church  may  be  considered  as  the  principal  cause  of  our  revolu¬ 
tions,  which  it  provoked  as  far  as  bringing  the  French  intervention.  Defeated 
by  the  Liberals,  they  waited  for  the  military  revolt  of  Tuxtepec,  and  took 
advantage  of  General  Diaz’s  dictatorship  to  recover  slowly  their  old  privileges, 
until  the  revolution  of  1910  came  again  to  rectify  the  situation  in  spite  of  the 
plots  and  intrigues  of  the  clergy,  which  greatly  contributed  to  the  murder  of 
President  Madero  and  Francisco  Villa’s  rebellion  against  Venustiano  Carranza. 

The  last  events  of  this  struggle  were  seen  lately,  when  the  Archbishop 
of  Mexico  openly  defied  the  government  and  refused  to  submit  to  the  law. 


So  the  conflict  was  started  bjr  the  church,  who  were  declaring  defiance  to  the 
law. 

This  aspect  of  the  problem  is  not  exclusive  to  Mexico.  The  Catholic 
Roman  church,  according  to  history,  has  been  doing  always  the  same  thing  in 
nearly  every  other  country  where  they  had  any  chance  for  absolutely  civil 
control.  Mexico’s  particular  case  is  more  serious,  according  to  the  moral  and 
intellectual  inferiority  of  the  clergymen,  due  to  the  leadership  they  have  had. 
The  Mexican  clergy  has  been  under  the  control  of  the  Spanish  clergymen. 
The  Spanish  clergymen  sent  to  Mexico  have  never  been  the  best  or  the  choicest, 
but  generally  the  refuse  of  priesthood.  They  are  sent  on  account  of  their 
ignorance  or  due  to  their  moral  conduct  and  because  they  wanted  to  get  rid 
of  them  over  there. 

Itjs  but  natural  that  the  Spanish  clergymen  imported  to  Mexico  and  in 
general  to  Latin  America  must  bring  monarchial  feelings  which,  mingled  with 
their  stern  fanatacism,  determine  an  evil  action,  opposed  to  any  democratic 
ideal  as  well  as  any  doctrine  of  freedom.  They  constitute,  therefore,  the 
most  serious  obstruction  for  the  moral,  economical  and  intellectual  evolution  of 
any  nation. 

That  foreign  clergy,  moreover,  had  controlled  the  choicest  positions,  leav¬ 
ing  the  lowest  to  the  Mexican  priests,  although  these  last  might  be  considered 
as  better  qualified.  Due  to  that  fact,  during  General  Diaz’s  administration,  the 
Mexican  priests  tried  to  obtain  from  the  federal  congress  a  law  forbidding 
the  foreign  priests  their  ministry  in  Mexico.  Upon  enacting  such  a  principle, 
the  constituent  assembly  of  1917  held  in  mind  the  moral,  economical  and  in¬ 
tellectual  conveniences  I  referred  to,  and  were  happily  inspired. 

Of  course  the  Mexican  government  is  right  in  not  tolerating  the  rebellious¬ 
ness  of  the  Catholic  clergy,  and  in  not  submitting  to  a  continual  struggle 
with  the  church.  In  order  to  avoid  this,  the  Mexican  government  has  made 
additions  to  the  penal  code,  to  be  enforced  only  in  deliberate  failures  to  obey 
the  law.  The  government  only  wishes  to  see  that  the  law  is  respected  and  kept, 
and  has  only  banished  those  foreign  priests  who  have  openly  defied  the  govern¬ 
ment  and  the  laws  of  the  country  by  refusing  to  obey  them;  and  also  suck 
foreign  priests  who  deserve  to  be  branded  as  undesirable  guests  on  account  of 
their  misbehavior. 

The  Catholic  clergy  has  been  advertising  to  the  world  and  trying  to  make 
everybody  believe,  here  as  well  as  abroad,  that  there  is  great  religious  perse¬ 
cution  by  the  Mexican  government;  that  it  is  trying  to  interfere  in  religious 
activities  and  interests  in  this  country.  That  is  only  a '  misrepresentation 
of  facts. 

The  Mexican  nation,  represented  by  its  government,  has  never  meddled 
in  the  religious  activities  or  interests  of  any  church.  It  is  not  trying  to  inter¬ 
fere  with  the  liberty  of  religion  in  any  way.  It  is  the  Catholic  church,  pre¬ 
cisely,  who  has  never  accepted  here  in  Mexico  that  principle  of  liberty  of 
religion;  and  that  is  but  natural  to  the  church:  Catholics  do  not  want  or  ac¬ 
cept  any  other  beliefs;  and  if  their  main  idea  is  to  control  the  government 
and  submit  it  to  the  Catholic  church,  it  is  for  the  purpose  of  eliminating  any 
other  creeds,  whatever  they  be. 

Such  purpose  was  clear  enough  since  the  1857  constitution  was  enacted. 
That  congress  understood  clearly  the  situation;  and  when  later  the  reform  laws 
were  enacted  in  1859,  the  same  principle  of  free  religion  was  fully  supported. 
Years  later,  when  the  1917  Constitution  was  enacted,  we  always  kept  in  mind 
the  same  freedom  principle,  and  it  has  been  our  endeavor  to  attain  in  fact 
the  complete  separation  of  the  church  and  the  state. 

This  government  is  entirely  impartial  in  religious  matters;  it  only  wishes 


—63— 


to  protect  everybody,  to  allow  Catholics  as  well  as  Protestants  or  members  of 
any  other  church  to  live  all  together  freely  in  this  country.  The  new  laws 
and  penal  code  ought  to  grant,  of  course,  and  in  fact  it  is  granted  thereat, 
such  principles;  but  as  I  have  already  said,  the  Catholic  clergy  does  not  want 
that  liberty  of  religious  worship  and  would  gladly  exterminate  any  other  creed 
in  order  to  establish,  if  they  ever  could,  the  Catholic  religion  within  the 
government. 

You  cannot  really  appreciate  in  the  United  States  how  far  the  Catholic 
intolerance  reaches,  and  there  is  a  reason:  Catholics  over  there  are  in  minority, 
and  appear  submissive  and  compliant  until  they  attain  greater  strength. 

I  believe  the  day  is  not  far  when,  in  the  United  States,  the  Catholics  will 
provoke  and  start  a  religious  struggle.  The  Catholics  hate  the  Protestants. 
They  would  rather  have  Buddhists  or  even  Pagans  and  better  yet  atheists, 
rather  than  any  other  creed  of  Christians. 

All  the  government  is  trying  to  do  is  to  give  full  protection  to  the  exercise 
of  whatever  creed  they  want.  The  Catholic  clergy  ought  not  to  fear  so 
much  the  additions  made  to  the  penal  code.  Honest  people  should  not  be 
frightened  by  the  penalties  of  the  law:  it  is  only  the  ill-minded  who  should 
feel  such  a  fear.  They  have  nothing  to  fear  if  they  really  behave  themselves. 

Possibly  you  are  getting  tired  of  what  I  am  saying.  But  I  have  just  talked 
in  the  most  simple  and  familiar  way  to  you.  I  had  no  address  already  pre¬ 
pared  for  you.  My  ideas  are  rather  disrupted  and  I  do  not  know  how  far  you 
are  interested  in  these  subjects.  I  could  extend  this  further  on  various  phases 
of  the  church  work  in  Mexico;  and  possibly  I  might  show  you  something  of 
the  effects  of  their  educational  program  and  other  teachings  of  the  Roman 
Catholic  Church  in  Mexico.  I  should  do  it  only  to  show  you  the  failure  of 
the  church,  in  spite  of  the  fact  that  they  are  claiming  everywhere  of  having 
their  schools  and  of  teaching  the  people  everything. 

I  could  show  you  how  they  alter  and  deny  scientific  truths;  how  they 
disturb  morals  in  the  confessional;  how  they  kill  the  individual  initiative  and 
will  through  the  miracle;  and  many  other  things  which  clearly  show  how  doleful 
they  have  been. 

When  Governor  of  the  state  of  Veracruz,  I  had  a  chance  to  see  closely 
some  of  the  work  of  the  church  and  its  activities.  I  had  to  send  commissioners 
to  help  among  the  poorest  people,  the  Indians  away  in  the  mountains,  to 
vaccinate  them  against  smallpox  when  there  were  such  epidemics;  and  to 
teach  them  in  irrigation  works.  The  sternest  opposition  always  arose  from 
the  Catholic  clergy.  They  always  taught  the  people,  especially  the  Indians 
away  in  the  mountains,  to  pray  constantly  to  the  saints  instead  of  accepting 
the  vaccination;  and  to  pray  again  to  certain  saints  to  assure  the  rains  in  due 
time  for  their  crops,  instead  of  achieving  the  irrigation  works  which  were 
absolutely  necessary  because  the  water  was  always  short.  In  such  a  way, 
they  always  opposed  all  rational  practices,  trusting  every  need  to  the  power 
•of  praying  to  the  saints.  This  was  not  only  done  with  the  pure  blooded 
indigenous  population,  but  with  the  mixed  classes  who  resisted  the  most, 
incited  by  the  church. 

That  means  that  all  the  advantages  deriving  from  vaccination  and 
irrigation  works  assuring  the  water  wanted  for  the  crops  were  rejected  by  the 
church,  who  only  admitted  prayers  and  alms,  better  than  anything  else.  That 
is  the  most  interesting  thing  for  the  church — alms,  gifts.  Who  can  ever  be¬ 
lieve  that  the  clergy  develops  a  moral  and  educational  work,  if  everybody 
knows  that  the  sinner  is  forgiven  provided  he  makes  some  gifts  to  the  church 
and  says  some  prayers,  good  enough  to  clear  from  guilt  and  allow  him  to  let 


54 


his  evil  passions  be  freely  satisfied,  since  he  knows  how  easily  his  conscience 
can  be  cleansed  again. 

Mexico  endeavors  to  improve  their  fields  and  their  homes  by  modern 
and  moral  methods,  in  accordance  with  reason.  You  can  verify,  therefore, 
how  the  church  and  the  clergy  have  always  been  the  most  serious  hindrance 
for  popular  progress,  and  never  a  help  to  the  nation. 

If  you  will  investigate  the  progress  of  the  Roman  Catholic  church,  you 
will  find  that  they  have  not  been  teaching  and  preaching  Christianity,  rather 
idolatry,  the  worst  form  of  idolatry.  That  they  have  always  tried  to  keep 
the  people  down,  and  not  to  help  them  to  go  up.  The  so-called  great  work 
of  the  clergy  in  their  schools  has  never  helped  to  ameliorate  the  people’s  lives, 
nor  to  improve  their  lands,  nor  to  help  anybody  in  any  way. 

You  people,  coming  from  an  advanced  country  where  science  is  applied 
everywhere,  can  easily  understand  how  difficult  it  is  for  the  Mexican  govern¬ 
ment  to  attain  the  people’s  progress,  when  we  have  to  counteract  the  gloomy 
programs  of  the  church. 

I  am  entirely  willing  to  give  you  any  other  information  in  any  of  these 
lines,  or  more  detail  in  any  subjects.  There  is  a  vast  amount  of  information 
to  which  you  can  refer,  should  you  wish  to  do  so. 

A  book  is  being  written  on  these  problems.  I  hope,  as  soon  as  I  have  it 
ready  for  distribution,  to  have  it  translated  at  once  and  get  it  into  the  hands 
of  the  American  people,  so  they  will  understand  our  problems  and  know  what 
we  are  dealing  with.  I  have  been  very  happy  to  see  you  here,  and  hope  that 
you  will  enjoy  your  visit  to  Mexico.  We  will  always  give  you  any  informa¬ 
tion  you  may  desire. 

MR.  TAYLOR:  We  have  been  very  glad  to  listen  to  Mr.  Tejeda’s  interesting 
talk  and  to  know  that  you  are  publishing  a  book  on  these  interesting  subjects. 
We  hope  you  will  have  it  out  soon.  Do  you  know  how  soon? 

ANSWER:  Yes,  in  about  three  weeks,  maybe  within  this  month.  If  you 
leave  me  your  names  and  addresses  I  will  gladly  send  the  book  to  each  one 
of  you. 

MR.  TAYLOR:  This  is  a  characteristic  interview  (extending  a  San  An¬ 
tonio  paper).  Did  you  give  it? 

ANSWER:  Yes,  yesterday,  in  the  interview  that  I  gave  out  to  a  local 
paper  and  for  the  United  States  also.  They  asked  me  about  some  disturbances 
in  some  places  of  the  country.  I  said  that  there  had  been  some  slight  dis¬ 
turbances  in  Torreon,  Irapuato  and  Ciudad  Guzman,  by  groups  of  women  led 
and  incited  by  the  priests;  and  that  with  the  exception  of  those  places,  the 
situation  was  very  quiet  in  the  rest  of  the  country.  I  also  said  that  the  separa¬ 
tion  of  the  priests  from  the  churches  and  the  appointment  over  all  the  churches 
of  local  committees  to  take  care  of  them  did  not  cause  any  trouble  or  dis¬ 
turbance  at  all. 

QUESTION:  About  how  many  churches  have  been  accepted  by  the 

government  and  abandoned  by  the  priests? 

ANSWER:  We  have  not  the  complete  figures.  The  governments  of  the 
different  states  have  not  sent  their  reports  in  yet.  Before  you  leave  the  city 
we  can  give  you  these  figures  of  all  the  churches  received  by  the  government. 
There  are  few  exceptions  where  the  priests  have  accepted  the  law  and  have 
continued. 

QUESTION:  Have  any  of  the  Catholic  clergy  registered? 

ANSWER:  Official  notices  have  been  received  here  of  several  priests 
who  have  accepted  the  law  and  have  registered  properly,  especially  in  the 
states  of  Puebla,  Hidalgo,  Veracruz  and  Oaxaca. 


—55 


QUESTION:  How  many  Catholic  schools  have  been  closed  and  how  many 
children  left  without  school? 

ANSWER:  Not  over  two  hundred  schools  INSPECTED  by  the  govern¬ 
ment,  NOT  CLOSED.  Some  of  them  remained  closed  for  a  few  days  until 
the  education  department  enacted  the  regulations.  Now  most  of  them  are 
open  again,  but  within  the  law. 

QUESTION:  How  many  closed  because  the  nuns  were  sent  away? 

ANSWER:  Those  handled  by  the  nuns  were  only  six  to  eight.  These 
schools  will  be  reopened  by  the  department  of  education,  without  nuns  and 
complying  with  the  rules.  Such  is  the  information  given  to  me  by  the  secre¬ 
tary  of  education  who  has  fully  shown  that  we  need  not  those  very  few  clerical 
schools. 

QUESTION:  There  is  a  great  difference  between  what  statistics  say 

and  the  Catholics  proclaim. 

ANSWER:  In  the  department  of  education  you  can  obtain  all  necessary 
information  to  verify  how  far  from  truth  are  the  Catholic  clergy,  pretending 
to  assign  to  their  educational  work  an  importance  which  it  really  has  not,  since 
that  work  is  really  null.  Dr,  Puig  Cassauranc  is  capable  of  treating  these 
topics  with  you. 

MR.  TAYLOR:  The  Catholic  hierarchy  has  challenged  you  put  your 
finger  on  a  single  case  where  they  meddled  in  politics. 

ANSWER:  The  very  fact  that  they  have  stated  publicly  that  they  are 
going  to  ignore  the  laws  of  the  country,  is  meddling  in  politics  right  away. 
But  there  is  something  else:  In  the  last  elections  for  representatives  of  the 
national  congress,  the  attorney  general  has  complete  information  regarding 
some  priests  filling  up  the  ballots  and  counterfeiting  the  ballots  in  behalf  of 
some  candidates  they  had  there. 

QUESTION:  Why  would  the  church  not  allow  the  priests  to  register? 

ANSWER:  Because  that  means  they  admit  the  sovereignty  of  the  state 
as  well  as  its  laws. 

QUESTION:  Then  the  statement  of  the  church  is  not  exactly  according 
to  law  or  facts? 

ANSWER:  Not  at  all.  The  state  considers  the  ministers  of  any  church 
only  as  members  of  a  profession,  and  they  should  register  the  same  as  any 
other  professional  man.  The  state  must  decide  how  many  priests  are  needed 
to  look  after  so  many  people  or  churches.  The  Archbishop  can  freely  appoint 
or  remove  anybody  he  wishes,  but  he  can  not  do  anything  in  that  line  which 
is  prohibited  by  law.  We  are  not  meddling  with  the  interior  regulations  of 
the  church,  as  they  claim,  when  we  ask  them  to  comply  with  the  law  and 
register.  As  you  are  aware,  the  properties  of  the  church  were  nationalized  in 
Mexico  in  1859,  and  the  1917  constitution  enacts  the  same.  The  buildings 
called  temples,  being  a  property  of  the  nation,  it  is  but  natural  that  the 
government  must  know  who  are  the  priests  in  charge  of  the  building,  looking 
after  its  conservation  and  proper  use  as  well  as  the  compliance  with  law, 
which  forbids  the  external  or  public  worship.  Besides  that,  the  registering  of 
priests  is  nothing  new  among  Catholics.  That  has  been  already  done  in  Italy, 
France  and  some  other  countries  justly  qualified  as  progressive.  It  is  cus¬ 
tomary  and  needful  that  all  professionals,  in  general,  should  register  for 
statistical  purposes  as  well  as  supervision  of  the  professional  exercise,  all  in 
behalf  of  the  people. 


—56— 


IIMI  ipp.i ,  I  I  jiiiL*i  Iji^iiuii  ,  IIJI  III.  HWI.  ■  ^  ,i  n  n^.yjLf  ,..,m^i! 


Agriculture 

SENOR  LUIS  LEON,  Secretary  of  Agriculture,  in  an  interview  Saturday 
noon,  August  7,  spoke  as  follows: 

The  action  of  President  Calles  in  this  department  of  agriculture  can  be 
divided  into  two  parts.  The  first  relates  to  the  agrarian  problem;  the  second 
refers  to  the  development  of  agriculture.  The  agrarian  reform  is  carried  on, 
following  the  principles  of  Article  27  of  the  Constitution  and  some  other 
conditional  principles  and  regulations  connected  with  these  constitutional 
principles.  The  main  basis  for  the  agrarian  problems  relates  especially  to  the 
giving  of  lands  to  the  different  agents  known  among  us  as  “cjidos”.  That 
problem  had  been  in  process  of  solution  during  the  administration  of  General 
Obregon.  The  development  of  this  problem  effected  many  great  land  owners, 
and  some  individuals  of  the  revolutionary  group  joined  them  in  an  effort  to 
protect  their  interests,  so  it  became  completely  political.  Naturally  the  prin¬ 
cipal  effort  of  the  government  was  to  down  these  interests.  This  particular 
effervesence  brought  about  peculiar  conditions  because  some  of  the  land  own¬ 
ers  made  tremendous  efforts  to  protect  their  interests  and  some  of  the  political 
plotters  offered  their  services  and  so  complicated  the  problem  from  a  political 
point  of  view.  General  Calles’s  administration  being  more  stable  and  more 
at  peace  has  been  making  special  efforts  to  separate  the  agragrian  problem 
from  the  political.  By  our  constitution,  it  is  endeavored  to  make  the  agrarian 
problem  a  more  technical  problem  and  isolate  it  as  far  as  possible  from  the 
political  question. 

•'  The  agrarian  commission,  which  is  under  this  department,  has  been  doing 
a  great  deal  of  work  to  give  all  towns  the  country  lands  they  need.  About  60 
'  per  cent  of  all  towns  have  now  received  these  lands.  They  have  not  been  given 
all  the  land  needed,  but  it  is  a  great  deal  more  than  all  the  land  given  in  the 
previous  ten  years.  We  are  working  to  facilitate,  to  hurry  the  solution  of  this 
problem.  The  method  followed  by  the  agrarian  committee  recently  was  to 
put  the  country  lands  in  the  hands  of  a  local  committee,  who  should  make  the 
distribution  of  these  lands  among  the  people  who  were  to  work  the  lands. 
That  system  brought  about  a  very  delicate  problem  in  every  town.  The  local 
committees  had  economic  interests  as  well  as  political  interests,  so  when  dis¬ 
tributing  land  among  these  people  the  man  receiving  land  from  that  committee 
was  bound  to  stand  by  the  committee  in  every  political  engagement.  This 
naturally  brought  about  much  trouble  in  every  community.  In  order  to  cor¬ 
rect  these  faults,  this  department  made  a  draft  of  a  new  statute  or  law  that 
was  submitted  to  congress  and  thereby  approved,  providing  for  the  distribution 
of  the  country  lands  so  as  to  create  a  homestead  in  every  locality. 

The  problem  was  too  big  in  the  first  place— the  dividing  up  of  the  land 
among  the  farmers  who  had  to  cultivate  it;  then,  in  order  to  protect  the  land 
from  the  land  monopolizers  in  the  locality,  these  homesteads  were  not  to  be  sold 
but  all  lands  were  to  be  kept  in  cultivation  by  each  individual  owner  in  order 
that  there  might  not  be  any  monopolization.  So  that  the  first  operation  to  be 
carried  on  in  order  to  give  this  country  land  to  the  different  agents  against 
the  opposition  of  the  land  owners  is  against  the  cooperated  interests  of  these 
localities;  and  the  organization  of  a  country  office  to  have  the  control  of  the 
lands  against  the  monopolizers.  Therefore,  the  production  of  the  local  lands 
is  absolutely  necessary. 

I  have  just  tried  to  explain  the  functioning  of  our  committees  in  a  tech- 
nical  and  scientific  way  as  carried  on  all  through  the  country.  But  it  may  be 
1  interesting  to  you  to  understand  something  of  the  foundation  of  justice  that 


—57— 


is  back  of  all  this  system.  In  any  country  where  the  ownership  would  be  based 
on  their  ability  to  cultivate  the  land,  there  would  be  established  a  system  of 
irrigation.  But  the  origin  of  land  ownership  in  Mexico  is  grounded  on  the 
right  of  conquest  to  take  the  land  from  the  Indians.  The  land  distribution  in 
Mexico  took  place  among  the  different  Spanish  conquerors  that  came  to  this 
country.  They  divided  up  the  land  in  large  tracts.  Not  only  the  land  was 
divided  but  also  the  natives,  the  Indians,  were  divided  among  these  land  lords 
under  a  feudal  system.  All  of  this  land  was  granted  to  these  conquerors  with 
the  understanding  that  they  were  to  establish  the  Catholic  church  or  religion. 
All  of  these  people  that  went  with  the  lands,  they  were  virtually  slaves.  This 
was  some  form  of  slavery.  The  indigenous  population  did  not  disappear  alto¬ 
gether  from  the  country  but  continued  to  survive.  For  three  hundred  years, 
at  least,  the  privileges  were  in  behalf  of  the  white  population  or  the  mixed 
race.  When  the  war  for  independence  came,  that  war  had  the  principles 
of  a  caste  war. 

All  through  this  history  of  three  hundred  years,  the  Indians  had  kept  the 
The  Indians  thought  that  after  the  revolution,  as  they  were  the  indigenees,  that 
principle  of  their  right  to  own  lands  and  cultivate  them  to  make  their  living, 
the  land  problem  was  to  be  entirely  solved.  They  found,  however,  that  after 
a  few  years  by  organizing  the  liberators  monopolized  the  land  in  some  form, 
leaving  the  Indians  with  only  political  rights  but  without  any  land  to  cultivate. 

We  had  revolutions  and  civil  wars,  most  of  them  under  political  principles. 
The  struggle  was  for  political  control.  The  real  war  of  principle  took  place 
in  1859,  in  what  was  called  the  reform  war.  In  these  times  the  principle  was 
to  fight  for  monopoly — the, main  monopo’y  was  two-thirds  of  the  wealth  of 
the  country.  The  energies  of  the  clergy  of  the  Catholic  Church  was  to  divide 
that  great  power  and  wealth  up  for  it.  After  that  reform  war,  the  effort  of 
the  liberal  movement  was  to  take  the  land  and  the  property  away  from  the 
power  of  the  church.  But  through  the  efforts  of  private  parties  who  were 
interested,  instead  of  getting  into  the  hands  of  the  Indians  again  it  again 
became  a  monopoly.  In  the  administration  of  President  Diaz,  which  was  a 
very  long  administration,  these  same  conditions  continued  to  exist,  or  worse, 
for  during  his  administration  more  land  was  monopolized.  More  land  was  in 
the  hands  of  the  few;  that  is  they  consolidated  many  of  these  great  estates  in 
the  hands  of  a  few  individuals.  A  gi-eat  deal  of  national  ruin  was  brought 
about  among  the  leaders  of  that  administration. 

The  revolution  of  1910  was  elementary,  based  on  political  subjects  or 
institutions.  Mr.  Madero,  the  leader  of  much  of  that  great  policy,  became  the 
president  of  the  Republic.  But  before  two  years  passed,  the  army  revolted 
and  President  Madero  was  killed.  The  failure  of  Madero  and  the  experiences 
of  that  time,  showed  the  revolutionary  leaders  that  the  revolution  would  never 
be  complete  unless  it  had  an  economic  and  social  object.  Of  course  Madero, 
who  was  a  great  democrat  and  a  great  patriot,  found  very  soon  after  starting 
his  government  that  land  ownership  was  the  biggest  problem  under  his  control. 
And  the  great  majority  of  the  men  working  under  him  and  on  the  great 
political  program  of  that  time  were  seeing  it  the  same  way.  Therefore,  the 
only  way  was  to  work  on  an  economic  basis  giving  independence  to  the  revolu¬ 
tionary  worker  so  he  might  be  in  possession  of  at  least  some  of  the  land  and 
have  a  party  in  the  industries  of  the  country  and  not  be  controlled.  That  is 
the  origin  of  the  agrarian  problem,  or  rather  where  the  need  of  solving  this 
problem  began.  That  problem  was  forced  upon  us  by  hostile  conditions  in 
existence  and  by  the  demands  of  the  day. 

I  know  it  is  very  difficult  for  the  American  people  to  understand  the 
agrarian  problem  in  Mexico,  as  there  never  has  been  in  existence  in  the  United 


58 


States  the  feudal  system  which  has  existed  here  in  Mexico,  v/ith  the  great 
landed  estates  that  came  into  existence  during  the  administration  of  General 
Diaz.  A  few  towns  that  kept  their  common  lands  up  to  the  time  of  General 
Diaz  at  that  time  lost  them  and  they  passed  into  the  hands  of  a  few  individuals 
who  monopolized  the  lands.  If  any  of  these  people  had  attempted  to  complain 
against  the  judicial  department  for  the  deprivation  of  their  lands,  the  land 
owner  was  enabled  to  use  force  and  have  them  imprisoned.  If  there  was  much 
complaint,  then  to  have  them  conscripted  into  the  army  and  finally  have  them 
sent  to  the  worst  spots  of  Mexico,  the  most  remote  spots  such  as  Quintana  Roo. 

To  prove  that  these  are  the  real  causes  that  have  been  active  in  this 
revolution,  take  note  of  a  few  things  we  can  give  to  you.  In  a  few  sections  of 
the  country  where  the  small  land  owner  was  respected  and  where  these  small 
pieces  of  land  were  not  incorporated  into  the  great,  large  estates,  in  spite  of  the 
revolution,  production  went  on  thei'e  in  that  part  of  the  country;  and  in  these 
sections  the  small  land  owner  refused  to  enter  the  revolution;  they  would  not 
pay  anything  for  nor  join  the  revolution.  But  on  the  contrary  in  those  sections 
of  the  Republic  where  great  landed  estates  were  found,  where  all  the  land 
had  been  monopolized  and  was  in  the  hands  of  the  few  and  the  rural  population 
was  deprived  of  land  altogether,  in  these  places  most  everybody  joined  the 
revolution  and  the  greatest  numbers  in  the  revolution  came  from  these  sections 
Therefore,  we  have  come  to  the  conclusion  that  the  only  way  to  establish  per¬ 
manent  peace  in  this  country  is  to  solve  this  agrarian  problem,  is  to  allow  each 
family  land  to  have  a  home  and  children,  to  allow  everybody  a  piece  of  land. 
When  all  this  agrarian  problem  is  properly  solved,  I  challenge  all  the  peoples  in 
the  world  to  start  another  revolution  in  Mexico. 

We  are  greatly  interested  in  this  agrarian  problem  and  we  feel  that  we  are 
indorsed  by  the  American  people  in  our  efforts  in  solving  ir,  with  very  few 
exceptions,  that  you  ought  to  be  deeply  interested  in  solving  this  agrarian  prob¬ 
lem  in  Mexico.  I  am  going  to  give  you  a  few  reasons  why  it  should  be  so 
interesting.  Mexico  is  one  of  the  best  markets  for  American  industry  and  it 
will  continue  to  be  a  very  satisfactory  market  for  all  American  products;  the 
consuming  capacity  of  the  Mexican  people  will  be  increased  if  all  these  poor 
peons  who  now  only  use  sandals  or  no  shoes  and  white  drill  clothes  have  their 
homes  and  can  have  more  of  the  things  they  need  and  want;  up  to  now  they 
have  used  only  ground  corn  and  chili  and  dressed  with  unbleached  cotton  and 
as  long  as  they  remain  so  they  will  not  be  good  consumers  of  these  things. 
But  if  we  succeed  in  transforming  these  ten  million  people  into  people  who 
dress  better,  use  better  goods  and  better  articles  of  manufacture,  the  demand 
for  American  manufactured  things  will  be  increased  ten  or  twelve  times  aa 
much  as  now.  Therefore,  I  believe  that  the  American  people  ought  to  be  deep¬ 
ly  interested  in  the  solving  of  the  agrarian  problem  in  Mexico.  The  difficulties 
that  have  arisen  between  the  American  and  the  Mexican  governments  over  the 
agrarian  problem  have  been  greatly  exaggerated.  I  am  going  to  speak  to  you 
very  clearly  on  this  subject. 

The  American  holdings  that  have  been  effected  by  the  agrarian  laws  are 
not  very  numerous.  Some  of  the  largest  land  holdings  within  this  region  are 
open  for  debate,  because  some  of  this  land  was  granted  under  concessions  for 
colonization,  made  to  the  present  owners  who  were  bound  to  colonize  it,  but 
they  have  never  colonized  it.  Those  concessionaires  succeeded  in  getting  the 
administration  or  some  of  the  government  officials  of  General  Diaz  to  absolve 
them  from  the  duties  of  colonization  so  they  would  not  have  to  go  to  all  the 
trouble  and  expense  of  colonization  but  could  use  the  lands  themselves.  The 
holders  of  these  privileges  or  concessions  are  those  who  are  always  hollowing 
in  the  United  States  and  making  the  reports  that  we  do  not  respect  their  prop- 


—59— 


erty  and  that  our  laws  interfere  with -their  holdings  or  property  regardless  of 
rights.  There  is  another  group  of  large  American  land  holders  who  are 
closely  related  and  associated  with  Mexican  great  land  holders  who  permit  them 
to  acquire  interests.  These  individuals  have  been  selected  by  the  Mexican  land 
owners  to  transfer  their  property  rights  apparently  to  them  so  that  when  the 
distribution  of  property  comes,  the  owners  are  foreigners  and  not  Mexicans. 
During  the  administration  of  General  Obregon,  there  were  committees  represent¬ 
ing  both  governments  who  met  to  discuss  some  of  these  international  problems. 
Those  commissioners  established  a  definite  basis  for  solving  this  agrarian 
problem.  On  the  part  of  the  United  States  the  commissionei's  declared  their 
acceptance  of  the  agrarian  laws;  that  they  were  willing  to  accept  the  limitation 
of  land  holdings  of  American  citizens  to  one  citron  or  1745  hectares  of  land; 
that  the  government  will  be  ready  to  accept  that  the  land  holdings  of  Americans 
shall  be  effected  to  that  extent  and  that  payments  should  be  made  in  bonds 
according  to  the  laws  of  Mexico,  which  bond  issue  is  to  pay  for  the  land;  that 
in  case  they  should  have  to  have  more  than  these  1745  hectares,  then  said  land 
is  to  be  paid  for  one-half  of  it  by  bonds  and  the  rest  in  cash.  Therefore,  in 
case  the  Mexican  government  were  obliged  to  take  over  any  land  holding  of  an 
American  citizen  of  more  than  one  citron  or  1745  hectares,  the  owners  would 
be  entitled  to  prove  that  they  had  gone  beyond  that  and  would  be  entitled  to 
demand  in  cash. 

The  original  procedure  in  taking  this  land  from  individual  owners  goes 
through  several  courses  until  finally  it  reaches  the  point  of  diplomatic  Con¬ 
sideration.  Generally,  however,  most  foreigners  are  not  willing  to  wait  for 
this  matter  to  run  its  course,  but  they  immediately  ask  for  diplomatic  inter¬ 
vention  instead  of  waiting  for  the  various  courses  of  the  ’aw  and  justice. 
That  is,  they  do  not  wait  to  see  if  justice  is  being  dealt,  but  they  ask  for 
diplomatic  intervention.  Some  of  these  people  by  their  i'complaints  ha\re 
caused  much  trouble.  They  have  brought  about  a  great  deal  of  friction  be¬ 
tween  the  two  governments,  and  have  published  throughout  the  United  States 
that  we  are  going  beyond  what  the  law  and  treaties  require,  confiscating  private 
property  of  American  citizens  in  this  country.  As  you  may  see  there  is  a 
complete  system  of  procedure  in  Mexico  established  by  Mexican  requirements 
and  customs.  Some  American  citizens  do  not  want  to  respect  the  laws  of 
Mexico  and  follow  the  procedure  established  by  law. 

The  Constitution  provides  that  when  land  is  taken  in  these  cases,  the 
government  has  to  pay  for  it,  taking  as  a  basis  the  physical  value  of  the  property 
plus  10  per  cent.  That  physical  value  is  placed  by  the  owners  themselves  when 
paying  taxes.  Payment  of  the  land  is  to  be  made  by  bonds  of  twenty  equal 
payments,  or  in  twenty  years  with  equal  payments  each  year  and  these  bonds 
carry  5  per  cent  interest.  During  the  administration  of  President  Carranza 
a  decree  was  published  crediting  the  bonds  to  pay  for  the  lands  taken  for 
agrarian  purposes.  But  the  land  owners  never  appeared  before  the  government 
claiming  payment  for  their  lands.  In  1920,  President  Obregon  published  or 
enacted  another  decree,  giving  an  extension  for  the  land  ov/ners  to  present 
their  claims  for  lands  taken  to  provide  common  lands  to  the  towns,  but  the 
land  owners  never  appeared  claiming  payment.  A  new  decree  was  published 
also  by  General  Obregon  in  1922,  giving  another  extension  of  one  year  to  the 
land  owners  in  which  to  present  their  claims  for  payment  for  their  lands,  but 
none  was  presented.  The  argument  used  in  this  country  and  in  the  United 
States  was  that  the  bonds  issued  to  pay  for  the  agrarian  debt  were  without 
market  value.  To  use  their  own  words,  they  were  only  wet  paper.  President 
Calles  issued  another  decree  last  year,  1925,  stating  that  a  twentieth  part 
of  these  bonds  might  be  paid  each  year,  and  could  be  received  in  payment  of 


—60— 


taxes  and  received  by  the  national  officials  as  gold.  So  by  that  decree  these 
bonds  were  guaranteed,  which  should  have  destroyed  the  opinion  of  the  land 
owners  that  there  was  no  guarantee  of  these  bonds.  And  another  letter  by 
President  Calles  guaranteed  these  agrarian  bonds.  Yet  another  guarantee  of 
these  bonds  is  that  they  can  be  accepted  as  collateral,  for  loans  up  to  66  per 
cent  of  the  value  of  the  bonds.  In  this  case  the  number  of  land  owners  who 
have  claimed  payment  for  the  land  is  simply  ridiculous  because  it  is  so  small. 

The  argument  published  so  often  in  the  American  papers  is  that  no  in¬ 
demnity  is  paid  for  lands  taken  in  Mexico;  but  this  is  for  political  effect. 
Because  all  these  land  owners  are  constantly  dreaming  that  another  revolu¬ 
tionary  movement  may  come  along  here  in  Mexico  to  overthrow  this  adminis¬ 
tration  and  undo  what  this  government  has  been  doing,  taking  away  from  the 
people  the  land  given  to  them  and  turning  it  back  to  them,  the  land  owners. 
I  personally  believe  that  those  are  simply  dreams.  I  beg  you  to  excuse  me  for 
taking  so  much  time  to  explain  these  agrarian  questions,  but  it  is  very  necessary 
that  the  American  people  should  understand. 

By  what  I  have  been  saying  you  may  easily  understand  that  if  we  continue 
favoring  the  country  laboring  man,  we  shall  constantly  be  having  a  conflict  with 
the  land  owners  and  shall  never  enjoy  their  support  and  friendship.  Therefore, 
we  have  been  forced  to  follow  two  different  lines  of  activity.  The  first  one  is 
to  help  the  small  land  owners  of  the  common  people  who  are  making  use  of 
these  common  lands  again  to  get  their  living  and  dor  their  families;  and  the 
second  is  the  individual  land  owners  who  are  to  cultivate  their  own  lands. 
In  order  to  help  the  small  land  owners  who  are  making  use  of  the  common  lands 
of  the  different  towns,  we  have  to  use  different  kinds  of  methods.  As  the 
government  of  General  Calles  could  not  solve  this  problem  everywhere  in  the 
Republic,  we  have  selected  special  sections  or  spots  in  the  Republic  to  give 
education  developing  these  people  and  to  help  them  cultivate  their  tracts.  We 
hhve  concentrated  in  four  different  states  of  the  Republic.  The  agrarian  prob¬ 
lem  is  very  complicated.  Because  if  our  procedure  carries  us  up  to  the  point 
where  we  have  a  man  holding  his  own  land  and  he  has  a  homestead  and  in  a 
position  to  cultivate  it,  the  problem  is  still  very  far  from  being  solved,  because 
that  small  farmer  in  order  to  cultivate  that  land  needs  education.  In  the 
second  place  he  needs  a  system  of  real  credits  by  which  he  may  get  money  to 
support  himself  and  carry  on  his  work  until  the  crop  is  ready.  And  in  the 
third  place,  a  special  kind  of  organization  is  needed  to  market  his  products 
to  avoid  the  middle  man,  who  generally  deprives  him  of  his  work.  Following 
that  problem  we  have  been  doing  several  things.  In  the  first  place,  we  have 
established  a  school  of  agriculture.  We  have  already  established  one  in  the 
state  of  Guanajuato;  and  we  are  to  open  three  more  new  schools  in  three 
different  sections  before  the  end  of  the  year.  The  program  of  each  one  of  these 
sections  is  very  small.  In  each  one  of  them  they  can  receive  from  200 
to  250  of  the  children  of  the  common  people.  We  have  tried  to  establish  these 
schools  in  good  agricultural  sections,  giving  to  each  one  about  500  hectares  of 
land,  with  water  for  irrigation,  establishing  them  where  they  can  have  within 
easy  reach  good  markets  for  their  products.  The  plan  of  the  government  is 
that  each  one  of  these  schools  may  be  self-supporting  in  the  near  future.  The 
pupils  received  are  boys  between  sixteen  and  twenty.  They  will  take  a 
course  of  two  years  in  farming,  but  they  have  to  work  half  a  daj'  as  laborers 
in  the  fields  in  the  country.  Half  of  them  will  be  at  work  in  the  morning 
and  the  other  half  in  the  afternoon,  learning  to  do  the  practical  work  of  the 
farm.  The  other  half  of  the  day  they  will  devote  to  their  classes.  They  are 
led  in  the  fields  by  experts  who  teach  them  how  to  do  everything  they  have 
to  do  on  the  farm.  During  this  course  of  two  years  they  have  to  learn  in  a 


practical  way  the  local  industries  and  the  cultivation  of  the  land  according  to 
local  means.  At  the  same  time  they  have  to  learn  practically  how  to  farm 
and  organize  so  as  to  defend  themselves  as  producers  of  the  land.  The  govern¬ 
ment  will  establish  in  each  one  of  these  sections  a  local  branch  of  the  national 
agrarian  bank,  to  provide  agrarian  loans.  The  bank  does  not  lend  money 
individually  to  any  person.  In  every  town  they  have  to  form  an  agrarian 
association  of  credit.  This  association  of  credit  is  to  be  responsible  as  a 
corporation  for  the  money  loaned  to  its  members.  That  is  the  only  way  we 
have  found  so  that  the  money  secured  from  these  banks  may  be  directly 
invested  for  agriculture;  and  this  committee  or  corporation  is  to  see  that  it  is 
thus  used.  These  banks  have  the  power  to  make  different  kinds  of  loans.  The 
first  kind  of  loans  is  to  help  furnish  seeds,  implements,  money  for  carrying 
on  the  cultivation  of  the  land  until  the  harvesting  of  the  crops  for  that  year. 
The  loan  is  guaranteed  by  the  crop.  The  second  kind  of  loans  are  destined  to 
enable  the  farmer  to  buy  machinery  or  anything  that  will  broaden  the  results 
by  using  them  on  his  farm.  The  payments  can  be  made  in  one  year  or  up  to 
five  years.  Another  kind  of  loans  is  money  given  on  mortgage  of  the  property 
to  the  land  owners  who  need  money  to  develop  their  lands,  for  water  for  irriga¬ 
tion  or  some  other  reason.  The  money  can  be  paid  in  one  year  or  up  to  ten 
years.  We  are  now  charging  very  low  rates  of  interest.  Each  one  of  these 
local  societies  will  invest  their  profits  from  the  lands  in  the  shares  of  the  bank, 
so  that  in  five  or  six  years’  they  will  own  a  good  many  shares  in  the  bank  itself. 
What  we  are-  after  especially  here  is  to  educate  the  people  to  take  care  of 
themselves. 

Our  history  deals  with  a  common  people  who  have  always  been  in  slavery 
in  some  form  or  other  and  aU  of  whom  look  to  the  government  in  some  depend¬ 
ent  way.  Those  people  look  to  the  government  for  everything.  If  the  govern¬ 
ment  would  establish  government  offices  in  local  places  and  try  to  make  these 
loans  we  are  absolutely  sure  the5?^  could  not  collect  one-tenth  of  the  money 
loaned  in  that  way.  Therefore,  we  have  decided  to  form  national  credit  asso¬ 
ciations,  guided  by  commercial  laws,  to  collect  the  payments,  and  also  to  help 
educate  them,  by  carefully  making  all  these  collections  and  the  collection  of 
interest,  that  everything  they  receive  they  must  pay  back.  We  believe  that  a 
man  will  only  appreciate  something  when  he  knows  that  it  has  cost  him  some¬ 
thing,  some  personal  sacrifice,  and  not  when  given  him. 

In  order  to  form  the  corporations  to  handle  the  products  of  agriculture, 
the  law  governing  the  banks  establishes  a  committee  to  handle  all  the  agricul¬ 
tural  products.  The  bank  itself  or  the  groups  from  the  local  towns  form  con¬ 
cerns  which  will  buy  the  crops  at  fair  prices.  Then  they  market  them  later 
when  the  prices  may  be  better.  After  they  have  sold  these  crops,  procuring  the 
best  prices  possible,  they  charge  a  very  small  commission  for  the  work  and  the 
balance  is  turned  over  to  the  farmers.  That  surplus  generally  was  kept  by  the 
broker  or  the  middleman.  These  are  some  of  the  methods  we  are  using  now 
to  solve  the  agrarian  problem  in  the  country  lands  around  the  towns.  We  are 
trying  to  teach  the  people  to  use  the  land  and  then  to  market  their  products 
and  get  the  most  for  them.  We  believe  that  with  continued  development  along 
these  lines,  we  shall  give  a  great  interest  to  agriculture  in  Mexico. 

In  order  to  help  agriculturally  we  believe  we  will  have  to  he’p  the  individual 
land  owners.  For  these  the  government  has  undertaken  to  build  up  great  water 
works  in  different  parts  of  the  country.  The  government  has  created  a  com¬ 
mission  for  building  water  works  for  irrigation.  A  great  deal  of  time  has  been 
spent  in  surveying  land  and  doing  the  preliminary  work,  the  work  is  in  progress, 
and  before  the  end  of  the  year  we  shall  have  spent  about  ten  million  pesos  in 
irrigation.  Next  year  the  commission  will  be  in  a  position  to  extend  the  work 


—62— 


so  as  to  expend  from  twenty  to  twenty-five  million  pesos.  We  have  estimated 
that  during  the  administration  of  General  Calles,  we  will  have  put  in  irrigation 
for  cultivation  1,200,000 'hectares  of  land.  A  great  deal  of  that  land  is  in  the 
hands  of  the  middle  class,  the  renters,  those  who  were  sometime  ago  just 
renting  land  to  cultivate  all  over  the  country.  The  other  half  of  the  land 
may  be  in  the  hands  of  colonists  or  immigrants.  Conditions  for  acquiring  lands 
for  these  colonists  will  be  very  easy.  Payments  can  be  made  for  twenty  or 
twenty-five  years.  And  in  order  to  use  all  this  land  that  has  been  made  ready 
for  agricultural  purpose,  I  am  very  happy  indeed  to  invite  through  you  any 
American  farmers  who  may  wish  to  come  to  settle  with  us  and  to  offer  them 
these  facilities  offered  by  the  governm.ent.  We  believe  that  if  the  Mexican 
government  can  continue  with  this  problem  for  ten  years,  it  will  be  in  a  position 
to  put  into  cultivation  more  than  four  million  hectares  of  land  that  has  never 
been  productive  and  that  Mexico  will  have  become  one  of  the  producers  of 
the  world. 

In  order  to  cultivate  all  this  land  we  are  planning  to  open  for  agriculture, 
we  need  the  co-operation  and  help  of  foreigners.  We  do  not  have  enough 
population  here  to  develop,  this  progi-am.  We  will  need  immigrants  from  the 
United  States  and  Europe  to  help  us  carry  on  this  plan.  In  this  program,  we 
are  always  willing  to  receive  with  open  arms  all  foreigners  who  may  be  ■willing 
to  come  and  establish  themselves  in  the  land  and  cultivate  the  land.  It  has 
been  said  we  have  a  nationalistic  spirit  that  is  very  radical  here  in  Mexico. 
And  it  has  been  said  abroad  that  we  compare  with  the  “Boxers  of  China”. 
But  if  indmduals  from  any  nation  of  the  world  are  willing  to  come  to  Mexico 
bringing  their  own  capital  and  work  on  a  humanitarian  basis,  we  are  always 
willing  to  open  our  arms  and  wekome  them.  It  is  a  fact  we  have  certain  bad 
feelings  for  adventurers  of  the  capitalistic  world  who  have  come  to  Mexico 
asking  for  concessions  for  colonization  purposes  and  who  have  never  complied 
with  them,  and  who  have  become  owners  of  large  tracts  of  land  and  who  are 
now  causing  us  the  worst  of  trouble,  invoking  the  aid  of  their  governments. 
For  this  kind  of  speculators  we  do  not  have  a  very  good  will;  but  any 
friends  who  may  come  with  their  money  to  work,  enjoy,  to  produce,  to  develop 
the  natural  resources,  who  come  here  to  help  us  develop  this  nation,  .we  are 
always  ready  to  welcome  them  with  open  arms. 

QUESTION:  What  is  the  average  amount  of  land  per  person  or  farmer? 

ANSWER:  The  figures  vary  a  great  deal;  the  quantity  of  lands  varies 
from  four  to  twenty-five  hectares  per  head. 

QUESTION:  No,  cities  and  towns. 

ANSWER:  That  subject  belongs  to  the  department  of  commerce  and  in¬ 
dustry  and  we  understand  that  department  has  been  studying  the  problem 
and  intends  to  establish  a  program. 

QUESTION:  Does  the  government  have  any  trouble  in  getting  these 
people  with  tribal  or  group  ownership  so  well  established  to  assume  individual 
ownership  of  the  land? 

ANSWER:  The  main  difficulty  is  the  ignorance  of  these  people;  they  don’t 
know  how  to  cultivate  the  land  nor  how  to  market  their  products.  They  have 
never  had  to  think  for  themselves. 

QUESTION:  Are  they  willing  to  change  from  their  village  ownership  to 
individual  o-wnership? 

ANSWER:  The  system  of  common  lands  in  Meixco,  with  two  or  three 
exceptions,  has  passed  away.  Now,  they  are  trying  to  have  an  individual 
system  of  land  ownership. 

QUESTION:  It  is  commonly  considered  in  the  United  States  that  Mr. 

—63— 


Hearst  owns  7,000,000  acres  of  land  in  Mexico;  and  is  he  one  of  those  who  is 
having  the  land  taken  away  to  be  cultivated? 

ANSWER:  That  report  is  not  true.  Mr.  Hearst  only  owns  about  450,000 
acres  of  land  in  Chihuahua  and  another  small  portion  in  Colima;  Mr.  Hearst 
has  refused  to  ask  payment  for  this  land  at  this  time. 


R.  O.  M. 


SENOR  RICARDO  TREVINO,  General  Secretary  of  Federation  of  Labor  of 
Mexicoj  addressed  the  group  following  a  luncheon  at  Sanborn’s  restaurant 
Saturday,  August  7.  Daniel  Gish  and  Professor  Tolbert  Reavis  were  the  inter¬ 
preters.  Senor  Trevino  said: 

According  to  the  wishes  of  Mr.  Gish,  I  shall  speak  to  you  about  the  inhuman 
treatment  of  the  industries  that  are  working  in  Mexico  towards  the  Mexican 
working  men.  I  was  elected  as  General  Secretary  of  the  Federation  of  Labor 
in  recognition  of  my  former  work  when  I  was  working  the  coal  mines  in  the 
state  of  Coahuila.  In  the  coal  mines  of  Coahuila  I  was  one  of  the  carpenters 
putting  in  the  timbers  in  the  mines,  the  supports.  There  were  mines  of  all  kinds, 
gold,  silver  and  other  metal  mines,  and  all  were  in  the  hands  of  large  cor¬ 
porations,  many  of  them  of  the  United  States — such  as  The  American  Smelt¬ 
ing,  Minerals  &  Metals,  Company. 

The  consumption  of  coal  in  this  country  is  limited,  except  in  the  industrial 
plants.  The  coal  mines  are  sometimes  6x9  feet,  but  this  is  an  exception,  be¬ 
cause  the  coal  mines  are  generally  two,  three  or  four  feet.  The  miners  in  the 
United  States  have  much  better  protection  than  we  have  aud  they  get  very 
much  higher  wages  than  the  miners  get  down  here.  For  every  ton  of  coal  that 
they  take  out  here  they  have  to  take  out  much  more  rock.  That  is,  for  one 
car  of  coal  they  will  have  at  least  one  car  of  rock.  The  men  here  receive 
about  one-third  cf  the  salaries  of  the  men  in  the  coal  mines  in  the  United  States.. 
They  have  to  work  more  hours  and  they  also  do  about  four  times  as  much 
work.  They  receive  one  dollar  American  money  per  day.  The  coal  mines  must 
have  supports  of  wood  in  order  to  protect  the  miners  from  the  caving  in  of  the 
mines.  Every  meter  there  must  be  a  support  to  prevent  the  caving  in.  The 
cost  of  this  work  of  supporting  from  caving  in  represents  about  15  per  cent 
of  the  cost  of  production.  The  metal  mines  and  the  coal  mines  throughout  the 
country  have  not  even  one-half  enough  of  the  supports  necessary  to  protect 
the  lives  of  ^the  miners.  In  the  most  dangerous  part  cf  the  mine  they  send 
the  miners  in  to  take  out  the  old  supports,  thus  endangering  their  lives,  in 
order  to  put  these  old  supports  in  new  places. 

The  transporting  of  the  material  and  taking  to  the  point  of  carrying  out 
represents  about  10  per  cent  of  the  production.  Then  they  run  cars  loaded 
with  coal  down  a  slide  incline  without  any  control  on  the  cars.  There  are  at 
least  fifteen  cars  at  a  time;  this  is  done  in  order  to  avoid  furnishing  the  motive 
power.  They  have  boys  of  fourteen  or  fifteen  years  of  age  who  put  clubs  of 
wood  in  between  the  wheels  of  these  cars  to  hold  them  from  going  down  hill 
so  fast.  Of  course  they  have  run  away  cars  for  lack  of  br,\kes.  The  result 
is  there  are  about  52  per  cent  of  the  men  working  in  the  mines  killed  each  year 
or  injured.  According  to  the  statistics  in  the  department  of  industry,  commerce 
and  labor,  90,000  men  are  losing  their  lives  every  two  years.  As  a  miner  I  was 
injured  six  times  while  placing  supports. 

With  the  oil  companies,  the  inhuman  treatment  they  mete  out  to  the 
workers  is  still  worse.  In  the  oil  zone  it  is  excessively  hot.  Great  quantities  of 


—64— 


oil  flow  over  the  ground,  making  life  almost  unbearable.  The  people  who 
work  for  the  oil  companies  do  not  have  houses  to  live  in,  but  only  huts,  just 
coverings.  They  have  no  medical  treatment.  When  a  man  is  injured  they  have 
to  carry  him  long  distances  in  order  to  get  him  medical  aid.  The  companies 
will  tell  you  they  have  beautiful  surroundings,  ice  plants,  medical  attention 
and  hospitals,  but  they  are  not  for  the  workers;  they  are  for  the  general 
manager  and  his  assistants.  It  is  positively  inhuman  the  way  these  men  are 
treated.  I  can  prove  this  from  the  manager  of  the  Aguila  Company,  when  I 
was  working  there  in  1915  to  1918.  I  was  kicked  out  of  the  restaurant  where 
only  the  Americans  and  Europeans  were  allowed  to  eat;  the  Mexicans  were  not 
allowed  to  eat  there.  Of  course  thre  were  a  few  Mexicans  who  held  higher 
positions  who  were  allowed  to  eat  there.  The  place  in  which  the  ordinary 
laborers  ate  their  food  was  in  a  place  without  ventilation,  unsanitary,  with 
very  bad  food.  There  was  a  first  and  a  second  class  eating  place.  The  first  was 
where  they  had  better  food.  In  order  to  get  first  class  food  one  paid  for  a 
meal  ticket.  In  spite  of  having  paid  for  eating  in  a  decent  place,  I  was 
forced  to  eat  in  an  unventilated  hut.  A  man  who  has  any  opinion  of  himself 
at  all  will  not  submit  to  being  treated  in  that  way  in  his  own  country.  I 
objected  to  this  treatment.  To  object  is  a  very  grave  offense.  No  matter  how 
they  treated  me  I  had  no  right  to  make  any  objection.  They  are  feudal  barons’ 
places.  They  do  anything  they  like.  When  the  soldiers  and  the  police  do  not 
help  the  foreigners  to  maltreat  the  Mexican  employees,  that  is  when  you  hear 
a  great  great  outcry  in  the  American  newspapers  how  Mexico  is  treating  Amer¬ 
ican  capital. 

Mexico  does  not  have  anything  but  natural  resources  and  men  to  do  the 
work.  We  are  naturally  very  much  interested  that  our  natural  resources  are 
properly  defended  from  capital.  But  they  are  not  only  exploiting  the  natural 
resources  but  the  people  as  well.  The  capitalists  of  the  United  States  must 
understand  where  terminates  the  exploitation  of  the  natural  resources  and 
where  begins  the  exploitation  of  the  Mexican  people.  The  legislature  of  the 
country  in  Article  133  established  this  limitation.  The  limitation  consists  in 
the  form  of  a  labor  law,  making  the  day  of  the  laborer  only  eight  hours,  with 
the  salary  sufficient  to  support  his  family;  providing  that  women  and  the 
children  must  not  work  at  night,  that  when  a  woman  is  going  to  give  birth  to  a 
child,  she  shall  not  work  for  a  period  of  three  months  before  giving  birth  to 
the  child,  that  all  children  under  twelve  years  of  age  shall  not  work,  that  the 
workmen  shall  have  a  right  to  declare  a  strike  when  the  employers  do  not 
comply  with  these  conditions.  When  the  government  attempts  to  protect  the 
workers  under  the  Constitution,  you  get  reports  in  the  United  States  that 
Mexico  does  not  protect  capital. 

Mexico  is  a  country  which  is  constituted  entirely  different  from  the 
United  States.  The  United  States  was  colonized  at  the  start  by  a  group  of 
colonists  from  Europe.  Mexico  had  its  origin  in  a  group  of  conquerors.  Be¬ 
tween  the  conquerors  and  the  colonists  there  is  a  tremendous  difference.  When 
the  conquerors  arrived  in  this  country,  they  came  to  make  a  war  of  conquest, 
to  take  possession  of  the  land  and  the  people.  The  King  of  Spain  authorized 
these  acts,  giving  them  titles  to  land.  They  had  tremendous  land  holdings. 
This  land  was  always  kept  in  the  family  from  the  father  to  the  son.  The 
revolution  which  crystalized  in  Article  27  of  the  Constitution  has  endeavored  to 
divide  this  property  in  favor  of  the  Indians  in  the  little  pueblos.  The  Constitu¬ 
tion  also  establishes  that  all  this  land  which  shall  be  taken  for  the  purpose  of 
giving  some  land  to  the  Indians,  shall  be  paid  for  also.  In  spite  of  the  fact  that 
the  revolutionary  government  does  not  recognize  that  these  men  have  a  just 
claim  to  the  property,  but  to  avoid  the  impression  that  it  was  dispoiling  them 


—66— 


of  their  lands,  it  will  pay  them  for  their  lands.  That  they  have  not  been  paid 
for  up  until  now  is  because  these  great  land  holders  have  refused  to  recognize 
the  bonds  with  which  they  are  to  be  paid.  This  is  what  is  called  on  the  outside 
of  our  country  the  dispoiling  of  land. 

Before  the  revolution  the  laborer  earned  from  twelve  to  eighteen  centavos 
per  day,  eighteen  centavos  bein  gthe  maximum.  The  great  estates  were  fenced 
in  on  four  sides.  In  the  middle  are  the  houses  of  the  workingmen.  The  doors 
or  gates  were  closed  at  six  o’clock  or  even  5  o’clock  in  the  afternoon;  they 
were  opened  at  four  or  five  in  the  morning.  These  were  closed  thus  early  in 
order  to  prevent  the  peons  from  escaping  and  not  paying  their  debts,  because 
they  were  always  in  debt.  In  sight  of  these  miserable  hovels  was  the  house  of 
the  owner  and  of  the  parish  priest.  These  priests  alwsy  preached  humility 
and  allegiance  to  the  land  lord,  but  never  did  they  do  anything  for  the  poor 
miserable  wretches.  This  is  explained  perfectly  well  Vhen  you  remember  that 
these  priests  are  from  the  same  privileged  classes.  Thus  we  have  an  explana¬ 
tion  of  the  lethargy  of  the  priest  in  not  doing  anything  for  these  poor  people. 

I  wish  to  refer  you  to  a  gasoline  problem  in  1922.  There  was  a  difficulty 
in  Tampico  with  the  Aguila  company.  The  company  demanded  protection  from 
the  American  government.  The  strike  was  for  the  right  of  organizing  labor 
unions.  It  lasted  six  months.  There  must  be  an  explanation  for  such  a 
happening.  The  American  oil  interests  were  induced  to  discuss  this  matter 
with  the  C.  R.  O.  M.  after  a  long  time;  but  the  workmen  of  this  company  first 
had  to  declare  a  strike  before  they  would  discuss  with  the  C.  R.  0.  M.  After 
four  months  of  this  strike,  the  manager  of  the  Aguila  Company,  Mr.  Jacobson, 
came  to  see  me  in  my  office,  to  tell  me  the  following:  That  the  oil  interests 
of  America  wanted  to  get  into  their  hands  the  controlling  interests  of  the 
Aguila  and  the  Corona  companies  and  that  they  were  just  deceiving  the  head 
office  in  London  (the  headquarters  were  in  London),  keeping  up  this  strike 
in  order  to  keep  the  stock  low,  in  order  that  they  might  capture  the  oil 
markets.  Mr.  Jacobson  said  he  was  disposed  to  immediately  arrange  this  mat¬ 
ter  with  the  C.  R.  O.  M.,  and  sign  a  contract  with  the  workers.  The  contract 
with  the  workers  was  signed  and  the  strike  terminated  in  one  week.  Two  or 
three  weeks  afterwards,  Mr.  Jacobson  was  called  to  London  and  succeeded  by 
a  new  manager.  This  will  show  you  that  in  many  cases  the  Avorkmen  of 
Mexico  are  the  victims  of  a  competition  of  capitalists  of  the  different  nations 
which  are  trying  to  control  our  oil  interests  in  this  country. 

QUESTION:  How  about  workmen  being  discharged?  We  were  told  by  a 
big  shoe  manufacturer  that  the  government  was  not  exactly  just  in  its  employ¬ 
ment  and  discharge  of  working  men  in  their  munition  factories  near  him,  for 
they  might  decide  what  was  a  just  discharge  and  discharge  a  workman  without 
paying  him  three  months’  wages  in  advance;  but  that  if  he  discharged  a  work¬ 
man,  he  had  to  pay  him  three  months’  wages  in  advance. 

ANSWER:  That  is  not  so.  There  is  a  committee  which  hears  all  these 
complaints  and  will  decide  them.  I  know  of  many  cases  where  they  have  been 
decided  against  the  working  man  and  in  favor  of  the  employer. 

QUESTION:  What  kind  of  coal  mines  are  there  in  Mexico? 

ANSWER:  They  are  an  average  of  150  meters  deep.  Some  of  the  metal 
mines  have  an  average  depth  of  400  meters. 

QUESTION:  Are  the  employees  in  the  government  factories  unionized? 

ANSWER:  The  government  has  two  classes  of  factories.  The  principal 
establishments  are  where  they  manufacture  things  for  the  army,  and  then  the 
manufacture  of  arms.  In  the  first,  the  right  of  forming  unions  is  recognized  as 
elsewhere.  In  the  second,  they  have  the  right  to  associate  themselves  for  im¬ 
proving  themselves  and  for  social  purposs,  but  they  do  not  have  the  right  to  go 


—66— 


on  a  strike,  as  they  are  manufacturing'  things  for  national  safety.  They  have 
the  right  to  meet  every  week  with  the  director  of  this  establishment  and  the 
heads  of  the  different  departments  of  the  establishment;  and  they  have  the 
right  to  discuss  matters  with  these  heads. 

QUESTION:  Are  they  associated  with  the  C.  R.  O.  M.? 

ANSWER:  Both. 

QUESTION:  Are  the  policemen  and  firemen  associated  with  the  C.  R.  O.  M. 
and  unionized? 

ANSWER:  Not  unionized,  but  affiliated  with  the  C.  R.  0.  M. 

QUESTION:  The  demonstration  that  was  held  on  Sunday,  was  it  under  the 
orders  of  the  government  or  free?  That  is,  we  were  told  that  these  employees 
of  the  government  were  forced  to  respond  in  order  not  to  lose  their  jobs  or 
positions.  Is  that  true? 

ANSWER:  This  was  under  the  direction  of  the  special  syndicate  of 

federations  of  the  Federal  District.  The  approval  of  this  movement  was  voted 
upon;  the  delegates  voted  as  to  whether  they  would  do  this  as  an  approval  of  the 
government  not  only  in  this  fight  with  the  church  but  as  a  vote  of  confidence  in 
all  of  its  struggles. 

QUESTION:  In  the  press  of  August  2  it  is  stated  that  the  payments  of 
employees  of  the  government  were  held  until  they  had  granted  their  allegiance 
to  the  government.  Is  that  true? 

ANSWER:  Absolutely  no.  The  C.  R.  O.  M.  marched  in  the  manifestation; 
many  of  the  employees  of  the  government  are  members  of  the  C.  R.  0.  M,,  but 
not  all  employees  of  the  government  are  members  of  the  C.  R.  O.  M.  The  C. 
R.  0.  M.  was  invited  by  the  government  employees  to  get  in  line  and  march  in 
this  manifestation.  But  it  was  the  just  act  of  the  C.  R.  O.  M.  to  see  that  none 
of  the  government  employees  were  pitting  themselves  against  the  government. 
They  felt  that  it  was  not  right  to  have  enemies  of  the  government  in  there. 
In  other  words,  who  are  the  enemies  and  who  are  the  friends  of  the  govern¬ 
ment?  The  C.  R.  O.  M.  put  it  up  to  the  government  to  put  out  the  enemies 
of  the  government.  In  spite  of  the  fact  that  they  might  be  enemies  of  the 
government.  General  Calles  said  they  had  a  right  to  live  and  were,  therefore, 
entitled  to  their  employment.  It  might  be  that  some  of  these  workers  circulated 
this  rumor  that  they  were  required  to  do  so.  There  are  those,  too,  who  will 
guarantee  that  ten  thousand  soldiers  dressed  like  working  men  were  in  this 
demonstration,  thus  making  as  small  as  they  can  the  number  of  friends  of  the 
government. 

QUESTION:  How  many  people  were  in  that  parade  that  day? 

ANSWER :  We  have  no  real  figures.  It  is  estimated  there  were  more  than 
100,000.  Army  officers  who  are  expert  say  that. 

QUESTION:  We  have  been  told  by  some  business  men  that  for  discharging 
an  employee  without  good  cause,  one  has  to  pay  three  months’  wages. 

ANSWER:  Article  123  of  fhe  Constitution  says  that  no  man  can  be  dis¬ 
charged  from  his  work  without  a  just  cause  and  when  the  boss  discharges  him 
without  a  justification,  then  he  has  to  indemnify  him  with  three  months’  wages. 
This  is  what  the  law  says.  When  he  is  discharged  without  good  cause,  he  can 
bring  charges  againsit  the  employer  before  the  courts  and  the  courts  determine 
whether  there  was  a  just  cause  or  not.  When  the  workman  loses,  he  naturally 
charges  there  was  an  injustice.  If  the  employer  loses  the  case,  he  naturally 
makes  the  charge  of  injustice.  Generally  these  employers  have  good  lawyers  to 
attend  to  their  business,  and  generally  the  lawyers  for  the  working  man  are 
“shysters”  or  just  plain  lawyers. 

QUESTION:  Can  an  employer  give  three  months’  notice  in  advance  and 
avoid  the  three  months’  payment? 


—67— 


ANSWER:  According  to  the  law  in  the  Federal  District,  he  cannot.  The 
workmen  do  not  endorse  this  way. 

QUESTION :  Supposing  a  man  is  discharged  without  notice  and  he  claims 
three  months’  pay,  what  does  he  do  to  get  it? 

ANSWER:  His  union  takes  up  the  case  for  him.  His  union  stands  between 
him  and  his  employer.  He  takes  it  to  the  Secretary  of  the  Union  and  they 
have  a  special  man  who  takes  it  up  with  the  courts,  in  the  special  department 
which  was  organized  and  which  is  known  as  the  labor  court.  It  is  more  or 
less  an  arbitration.  But  they  have  full  authority  to  take  it  up  to  this  court  of 
arbitration. 

QUESTION:  We  are  also  told  that  a  case  is  never  decided  in  favor  of  an 
imployer  but  always  in  favor  of  the  employee. 

ANSWER:  I  can  cite  many  cases  in  favor  of  the  employer. 


The  Mexican  Labor  Movement 

Dr.  J.  H.  Rettinger,  author  of  a  history  of  the  Mexican  labor  movement 
soon  to  be  published  in  England  under  the  title,  “Morones  of  Mexico,” 
noted  as  a  scho’ar,  spoke  before  the  Taylor  group  in  its  conference  room  at  the 
Princess  hotel  Friday  afternoon,  August  6.  Speaking  in  English,  he  said: 

The  basis  of  the  labor  movement  in  Mexico  is  that  workmen  could  not 
live  on  what  they  were  getting  as  salaries.  They  were  fighting  for  existence. 
The  labor  question  in  Central  America,  South  America,  and  Mexico  has  been 
pretty  much  the  same.  The  laborer  was  working  for  from  five  to  fourteen 
hours  a  day  and  receiving  from  ten  to  twenty  centavos  for  this  hard  labor. 
Of  course  he  could  not  subsist  on  it.  He  certainly  could  not  pay  for  his  barest 
needs  and  he  could  not  spend  any  money  on  education.  In  primary  education 
only  was  there  anything  done  outside  of  some  of  the  big  cities  and  Mexico 
City.  Therefore,  in  1913,  what  the  government  first  tried  to  do  was  to  establish 
some  primary  schools.  Since  then  there  have  been  some  11,000  schools  estab¬ 
lished  in  the  Republic  of  Mexico.  They  still  have  need  of  20,000  more. 

Until  1911  the  workman  here  was  not  treated  as  a  workman;  he  was 
treated  inhumanly  and  there  was  nothing  to  prevent  this.  There  was  no  group 
or  union  or  association  from  whom  he  could  get  any  protection.  You  must 
remember  that  there  has  always  been  the  difference  in  race  here.  It  has  not 
been  as  it  has  always  been  in  England  where  both  the  employer  and  the 
worker  were  English.  There  has  been  for  four  hundred  years  this  difference 
here  between  those  who  came  from  Europe  and  those  born  in  Mexico.  When 
the  Spanish  made  the  conquest  these  people  were  looked  upon  like  serfs  of  the 
middle  ages  in  Europe  or  like  the  old  Roman  slaves.  He  was  not  admitted 
to  the  same  community  as  white  men.  Many  times  even  officially  the  Spanish 
authorities  denied  the  existence  of  a  brotherhood  between  the  native  Indians 
and  the  Spaniards.  That  is  how  the  labor  problem  was  for  the  native  at  the 
beginning  of  the  nineteenth  century. 

The  first  organization  of  labor  in  Mexico  was  started  by  a  man  by  the  name 
of  Idar  from  the  United  States,  but  a  Mexican  by  birth,  who  came  here  in 
1888  and  tried  to  found  a  lodge  of  the  railroad  men.  This  lasted  only  a  few 
months.  There  was  no  association  for  the  working  man  at  all  except  a  few 
ritualistic,  philanthropic  institutions.  At  the  end  of  the  century  there  was 
some  momentum  in  labor  matters  and  several  associations  were  started  up. 
The  second  association  of  importance  was  formed  in  the  textile  mills  in  Rio 
Blanco  near  Orizaba  in  1898.  Federal  troops  took  action  against  the  associa- 


—68— 


tion  and  there  were  about  seventy-eight  killed  and  three  hundred  wounded  in 
the  street  fights  between  the  workmen  and  the  troops.  The  salary  then  for 
doing  twelve  hours  was  about  twenty-five  American  cents.  Between  1908  and 
1911  some  few  attempts  to  form  unions  were  made.  With  the  revolution  of 
1910  the  Casa  Obrera  Mundial  tried  to  organize  the  labor  movement  in  Mexico, 
but  they  didn’t  succeed  for  two  reasons.  First,  in  1913  the  government  was 
under  the  military  lead  of  Victoriano  Huerta.  He  governed  for  about  one  and 
a  half  years.  He  was  against  much  of  this  organization.  But  after  he  was  gone 
and  President  Carranza  came  to  the  oifice,  General  Obregon  succeeded  in 
getting  some  members  of  the  working  group'  organized.  They  were  from  the 
proletariat  in  Queretaro  and  many  other  places,  and  by  them  there  was  included 
in  the  constitution  of  1917  the  first  legislation  on  their  behalf.  One  year 
later,  at  the  instigation  of  Morones,  Salcedo  and  Barragan  it  was  decided  to 
form  the  General  Federation  of  Labor,  and  at  the  first  conference  they  formed 
the  first  real  Mexican  union  and  what  is  now  known  as  La  Confederacion 
Region  Obrera  Mexicana,  but  usually  known  under  its  intials  C.  R.  O.  M. 

The  next  convention  of  this  new  federation  took  place  in  1919  with  103 
delegates  assisting,  representing  fourteen  states  and  about  40,000  members. 
The  C.  R.  O.  M.  now  has  1,400,000  members.  It  is  today  probably  the  most 
important  power  of  its  kind  in  Mexico.  I  say  this  of  it,  why?  Because  it  is  an 
associate  of  the  constitutional  government  of  General  Obregon  and  President 
Calles.  The  labor  movement  never  tried  to  take  any  active  part  in  the  govern¬ 
ment  of  this  country.  And  they  supported  all  through  the  revolution,  and 
what  is  more  always  tried  to  keep  in  good  relations  with  some  organization 
like  the  American  Federation  of  Labor  in  the  United  States. 

What  was  Gompers  relation  to  the  labor  movement  in  Mexico?  Gompers 
was  most  interested  from  the  very  start  in  the  possibility  of  a  confederation 
of  Mexican  workers.  In  1919  at  the  Mexican  meeting  at  Laredo,  with  some 
1600  representatives,  they  succeeded  in  forming  a  basis  for  the  joining  of  the 
American  Federation  of  Labor.  This  was  the  first  time  Gompers  had  anything 
to  do  with  Mex'ico.  He  liked  it  here.  He  came  again  later  and  then  in  1923 
and  a  little  later  before  he  died.  Mexicans  could  count  upon  him  in  support  of 
their  claim  in  international  affairs  and  in  this  country.  He  had  nothing  to  do 
with  actual  organization  work.  The  American  Federation  of  Labor  has  sent 
us  delegates  from  time  to  time.  The  Mexicans  sent  representatives  several 
times  to  the  American  Federation  to  see  how  it  was  organized. 

What  is  the  relationship  between  the  C.  R.  0.  M.  and  the  Catholic  church? 
The  Catholic  church  has  nothing  to  do  with  the  C.  R.  0.  M.  and  the  C.  R.  O.  M. 
nothing  to  do  with  the  Catholic  church.  In  some  few  cases  when  the  church 
has  decided  to  interfere  with  either  the  social  or  political  questions  of  Mexico, 
it  has  fought  the  C.  R.  O.  M.  It  fought  the  C.  R.  O.  M.  for  many  years  because 
it  was  taking  away  many  Catholics.  The  church  has  attempted  to  organize 
labor  among  its  members.  In  1922  it  started  to  organize  a  political-social 
movement.  The  C.  R.  O.  M.  did  not  think  it  worthwhile  to  fight.  The  organiza¬ 
tion  was  never  strong.  I  do  not  think  the  total  membership  of  the  Catholic  church 
union  was  ever  over  25,000,  whereas  the  C.  R.  0.  M.  now  numbers  1,400,000. 

The  average  daily  salary  of  the  C.  R.  O.  M.  workers  in  such  places  as 
Monterey  is  about  one  peso  and  a  half  and  the  average  salary  of  the  non- 
organized  workman  is  not  more  than  forty  centavos  a  day.  These  workers  who 
are  not  organized  realize  that  they  profit  by  being  organized.  When  they  or¬ 
ganize  now,  how  does  the  C.  R.  0.  M.  help  them?  When  a  new  union  is  formed, 
the  central  offices  of  the  C.  R.  O.  M.  send  out  a  small  library,  generally  com¬ 
posed  of  thirty  volumes  which  treat  on  the  general  questions  about  co-operation 
and  duties  of  citizenship,  and  they  send  them  periodically  publications  that 


—69— 


treat  on  the  same  subject.  They  also  send  out  representatives  to  start  the 
new  union  or  organization.  As  to  the  business  and  agricultural  workers,  it  is 
done  differently.  In  the  city  of  Guanajuato  they  organized  from  the  adjacent 
towns.  There  the  C.  R.  O.  M.  started  about  four  unions  in  1918.  They  now 
are  all  members  of  the  C.  R.  O.  M.  and  of  the  co-operative  groups.  Today 
there  are  about  sixty-four  unions  in  Guanajuato. 

Are  they  like  the  I.  W.  W.  Have  they  a  philosophy  thought  out?  The 
majority  of  the  laborers  are  very  ignorant.  They  know  only  one  thing,  that 
they  have  been  starving  and  they  want  to  stop  starving.  The  laborers  have 
their  work.  You  cannot  compare  labor  here  with  that  in  the  United  States. 
Here  illiteracy  is  very  great.  It  is  said  there  is  about  65  per  cent.  Prominent 
business  men  intimate  that  these  men  who  make  up  these  labor  organizations 
are  so  ignorant  that  you  can  make  Catholics  of  them  or  Protestants  of  them 
in  twenty-four  hours.  I  don’t  believe  it. 

Are  the  labor  unions  in  Yucatan  allied  wdth  the  C.  R.  O.  M.?  Both  allied 
and  a  part  of  the  C.  R.  0.  M.,  but  owing  to  the  distance  there,  leaders  cannot 
go  there  from  the  central  offices  as  well  as  to  some  other  parts.  Felipe  Carrillo, 
the  great  leader  and  organizer  there  in  Yucatan  for  over  three  years  did  much 
to  organize  labor;  he  was  treasurer  or  vice-president  of  the  C.  R.  O.  M.  when 
he  died. 

What  has  the  government  to  do  with  the  management  of  the  C.  R.  O. 
M.?  Absolutely  nothing.  What  has  the  C.  R.  O.  M.  to  do  with  the  manage¬ 
ment  of  politics?  Entirely  by  leaders.  The  particular  leader  of  labor  is 
Morones  and  he  is  minister  in  Calles’  cabinet.  Calles  was  elected  with  labor 
votes.  Obregon  effected  the  defeat  of  Carranza  with  labor  votes. 

QUESTION :  My  impression  was  that  labor  is  a  powerful  factor  in  the 
government;  that  the  government  managed  the  C.  R.  O.  M.  politically. 

ANSWER:  No,  only  a  small  part  of  the  activities  of  the  C.  R.  O.  M.  are 
in  politics;  they  do  not  run  to  politics.  There  is  complete  peace  and  mutual 
understanding  between  CaTes  and  the  C.  R.  O.  M.  Calles  was  the  first  leader 
of  the  masses  in  Mexico.  Many  times  he  has  declared  himself  to  be  a  labor 
man  and  of  the  labor  party.  He  did  so  in  New  York  two  years  ago,  after  he 
was  elected  for  president  and  before  leaving  for  Europe,  and  also  here  in 
Mexico.  So  they  are  working  together  for  understanding  and  success.  The 
C.  R.  0.  M.  has  no  relationship  with  the  several  state  governments  of  Mexico. 

QUESTION:  What  relation  has  the  C.  R.  O.  M.  to  the  labor  political 
party? 

ANSWER:  It  was  agreed  in  1920  that  they  needed  some  way  of  fighting 
in  Mexican  politics,  and  through  the  C.  R.  O.  M.  the  labor  party  was  formed 
and  this  labor  party  talks  politics. 

QUESTION:  For  instance,  could  they  put  up  their  candidate,  say  a  man 
like  Morones  for  president?  Are  there  sufficient  leaders  in  the  labor  party 
to  put  their  candidate  in? 

ANSWER:  I  don’t  know.  I  have  just  returned  from  six  months  being 
away  from  Mexico  so  I  am  not  informed  of  the  present  plans  of  the  labor 
party. 

QUESTION:  The  leaders  of  the  labor  party  are  largely  the  leaders  of  the 
C.  R.  0.  M.? 

ANSWER:  Yes.  Certain  of  its  leaders  come  from  the  C.  R.  O.  M., 
but  many  of  the  leaders  of  the  C.  R.  O.  M.  do  not  deal  in  politics.  There 
are  a  large  number  of  C.  R.  O.  M.  leaders  who  are  not  in  the  labor  party. 
The  labor  party  emanates  from  the  C.  R.  O.  M. 

QUESTION:  Is  it  possible  to  give  the  number  of  members  of  the  labor 
•party?  Are  there  5,000  or  10,000? 


ANSWER:  Yes,  easily;  in  the  election  of  Calles,  he  received  1,300,000 
votes;  probably  one  million  votes  were  from  the  labor  party. 

QUESTION :  We  have  been  informed  by  business  men  here  that  there 
was  not  fair  counting  of  the  votes.  Do  you  agree? 

ANSWER:  I  certainly  do  not  agree.  Flores,  the  counter-candidate,  was 
a  man  without  any  prestige.  Why  should  they  count  badly  for  him;  there  was 
really  nobody  for  him.  In  some  of  the  cities  of  the  Pacific  Coast,  in  one  of 
which  states  he  was  governor,  they  may  have  voted  largely  for  Flores,  but  not 
in  other  parts  of  the  Republic. 

QUESTION:  Are  political  standards  such  now  that  votes  will  be  carefully 
counted? 

ANSWER:  I  think  so.  In  the  last  elections  a  short  time  ago,  there  was 
much  importance  attached  to  this  and  they  claim  that  there  was  much  accuracy 
and  care  in  the  counting  of  votes. 

QUESTION:  Is  the  C.  R.  O.  M.  engaged  in  other  advancement? 

ANSWER:  One  of  the  things  they  are  now  trying  to  do  is  to  form 
co-operative  societies.  The  economic  conditions  of  the  C.  R.  O.  M.  at  first  were 
such  that  they  had  practically  no  money.  Out  of  about  600,000  members  only 
about  100,000  paid  their  quotas.  Now  it  is  different;  probably  90  per  cent  pay 
their  quotas  regularly,  which  is  a  very  good  percentage.  The  second  endeavor 
of  the  C.  R.  O.  M.,  outside  of  purely  social,  is  the  formation  of  2000  small 
libraries  which  they  send  out  all  over  the  country.  They  have  also  formed  many 
night  schools  for  the  working  men  and  women.  Here,  I  believe,  there  are 
about  forty  of  them. 

QUESTION:  Are  the  railroad  workers  members  of  the  C.  R.  O.  M.? 

ANSWER:  The  railroad  workers  are  not  all  members  of  the  C.  R.  O.  M. 
They  have  been  members.  The  railroad  workers  were  associated  with  the  C.  R. 
O.  M.  until  1922  when  they  formed  a  distinct  organization.  About  one-fourth 
of  the  railroad  men  of  Mexico  are  members  of  the  C.  R.  O.  M. 


Protestant  Missionaries 

The  Protestant  Missionaries  resident  in  Mexico  City  came  to  the  conference 
room  in  the  Princess  hotel  on  the  second  day  of  the  group’s  visit,  to  answer 
questions  concerning  their  experiences.  The  stenographic  report  of  the  dis¬ 
cussion  was  incomplete.  Only  a  few  of  the  questions  and  answers,  therefore, 
can  be  presented.  The  identity  of  those  who  made  answers  was  not  reported. 
Dr.  John  Howland,  a  Congregationalist,  the  recognized  “dean”  of  the  missionary 
forces,  presided. 

MR.  TAYLOR:  We  are  interested  in  the  Protestant  mission  group’s  atti¬ 
tude  tow'ards  the  present  day  religious  question. 

ANSWER:  We  must  obey  the  law,  that  is  the  first  thing. 

QUESTION:  In  Czecko  Slovakia,  where  people  are  turning  away  in  such 
tremendous  proportions  from  the  Catholic  church  to  the  Protestant  church, 
the  people  coming  from  the  Catholic  church  with  its  appeal  to  color  and  beauty 
do  not  feel  at  home.  Do  you  feel  that  the  Protestant  church  here  is  trying  to 
appeal  to  the  artistic  and  colorful?  In  Czecko  Slovakia  the  Congregational 
church  has  a  very  conservative  theology,  with  individualistic  rather  than  social 
points  of  view.  Is  the  Protestant  church  social  here? 

ANSWER:  Some  of  our  Mexican  pastors  are  very  individualistic.  People 
frequently  go  to  extremes,  absolutely  turning  away  from  old  forms.  We  find 
in  some  of  the  churches  a  very  strong  tendency  to  break  away  from  all  the 


—71 — 


forms  of  the  Catholic  church;  for  instance,  they  insist  that  there  shall  be  no 
Biblical  pictures,  no  sculpturing  or  images,  fearing  that  they  might  have  to 
bow  to  them.  They  also  insist  on  an  unvested  choir  and  refuse  to  come  to  the 
front  in  order  to  partake  of  the  Holy  Communion. 

QUESTION:  Do  you  think  it  is  the  foreign  missionaries  or  the  native 
people  who  are  most  interested  in  perpetuating  denominational  lines? 

ANSWER:  The  lines  are  brought  in  by  foreigners  but  the  perpetuation 
today  is  more  by  the  Mexican  than  by  the  foreigner.  Some  of  the  Mexican 
pastors  are  intense  denominationalists. 

QUESTION:  What  is  the  attitude  of  the  Protestant  Mexican  people  to 
the  missionaries  from  the  United  States? 

ANSWER:  Usually  the  very  best  of  friends,  the  best  you  can  get. 

QUESTION:  Is  there  a  movement  for  an  independent  native  organization? 

ANSWER:  Decidedly,  they  are  practically  running  it.  We  recently  had 
the  big  annual  meeting  of  the  synod  in  our  church  and  some  of  us  had  been 
afraid  for  several  weeks,  wondering  what  the  Mexican  people  thought  of  us, 
and  wondering  if  they  would  not  be  glad  to  see  us  go.  There  was  a  two  and  a 
half  day  discussion  of  the  missionary  and  his  work  and  what  his  relation  to  the 
Mexican  Presbyterian  church  would  be.  I  was  surprised  and  very  happy.  None 
of  them  wanted  us  to  leave  the  country  and  they  gave  us  a  list  of  things  we 
could  still  do  and  things  they  wanted  us  to  do  in  Mexico.  We  still  have  a  lot 
of  work  to  do  here. 

QUESTION:  What  is  the  number  of  adherents  to  the  Mexican  Protestant 
church? 

ANSWER:  We  have  no  definite  information  but  I  should  say  between 
thirty  and  forty  thousand,  although  our  enemies  say  fifty  thousand. 

QUESTION:  How  many  are  there  in  Mexico  City? 

ANSWER:  I  should  say  about  three  or  four  thousand. 

QUESTION:  How  many  ordained  Mexican  Protestant  ministers  are  there 
in  Mexico? 

ANSWER:  About  four  hundred. 

QUESTION:  How  many  people  do  you  reach  with  your  influence? 

ANSWER:  The  Protestant  gospel  has  spread  over  the  whole  country. 
Everywhere  the  influence  is  to  be  seen.  Formerly  in  the  Catholic  churches 
there  were  no  benches;  now  they  have  benches  and  there  is  also  very  fine  preach¬ 
ing  in  many  of  the  churches.  There  are  also  good  talks  during  the  Rosario 
which  is  an  afternoon  service.  In  the  various  government  departments  you 
will  find  that  most  of  the  heads  are  Protestant.  We  are  stronger  than  any¬ 
where  else  in  the  Department  of  Education  because  they  recognize  the  fact 
that  there  is  real  value  and  worth  to  our  work.  We  have  members  in  Congrss 
and  in  all  departments  of  the  government. 

QUESTION:  What  percentage  of  the  public  school  teachers  are  Protes¬ 
tant? 

ANSWER:  We  do  not  know,  but  there  is  a  very  large  percentage,  con¬ 
sidering  the  Protestant  church  membership. 

QUESTION:  Is  a  man  handicapped  in  politics  if  he  be  a  Protestant? 

ANSWER:  In  the  old  days  it  would  have  been  impossible,  now  it  makes 
no  difference.  But  we  discourage  our  men  from  getting  into  politics. 

QUESTION:  Is  there  a  coordination  of  Protestant  Mexican  forces  in 
Mexico? 

ANSWER:  A  committee  of  cooperation  has  held  monthly  meetings  for 
the  past  ten  years.  There  was  one  Mexican  and  one  foreigner  for  each  de¬ 
nomination  in  that  body.  At  the  meeting  this  month  a  committee  was  appointed 
to  arrange  for  a  federal  council  of  Protestant  Mexican  churches,  that  will  be 


—72— 


purely  national,  without  foreigners. 

QUESTION:  Is  there  a  youth  movement  in  Mexico,  breaking  down  a 
lot  of  old  conventions  and  barriers? 

ANSWER:  There  is,  decidedly.  We  had  last  February  a  congress  of 
Mexican  Methodist  girls.  They  did  not  want  anyone  over  thirty  years  of  age 
to  have  anything  to  say  in  the  congress.  They  asked  more  freedom  to  ex¬ 
press  their  ideas.  We  had  2527  members.  During  their  congress  they  spent 
a  week  deciding  whether  they  would  take  a  stand  on  war.  They  reached 
the  conclusion  that  they  condemned  war,  but  when  somebody  brought  up  the 
matter  of  intervention  from  the  North  they  all  decided  they  would  take 
sticks  and  stones  and  everything  e’se  they  could  lay  their  hands  on  and  fight. 
They  had  no  discussion  on  industrialism.  They  said  they  wanted  the  teaching 
of  Jesus  applied,  and  said  that  all  of  us  are  one  blood. 

QUESTION :  There  are  Mexican  young  people  in  the  United  States 

who  come  from  the  Protestant  church  of  Mexico,  What  shall  we  do  with 
them? 

ANSWER:  I  would  like  to  see  them  trained  as  leaders  and  sent  back 
to  Mexico  because  it  is  the  crying  need  of  Mexico. 

QUESTION:  Do  the  Mexicans  accept  these  men  who  come  back  more 
or  less  Americanized? 

ANSWER:  They  are  proud  of  them,  yet  a  little  bit  jealous.  This,  how¬ 
ever,  depends  entirely  on  the  individual. 

QUESTION:  What  is  the  Y.  M.  C.  A.  doing? 

MR.  TAYLOR,  General  Secretary  of  the  Y.  M.  C.  A.:  We  have  recently 
attempted  to  enlarge  our  work.  We  put  on  a  drive  in  October  during  which 
we  received  over  ha’f  a  million  pesos.  Some  of  this  money  is  being  spent  for 
the  remodeling  .of  the  central  building  and  in  opening  new  centers — -one  for 
industrial  workers  in  the  eastern  part  of  the  city,  and  a  recreation  park  in 
the  western  part  of  the  city.  The  government  has  contributed  very  generous¬ 
ly.  Our  greatest  influence  has  been  in  the  field  of  physical  culture  and 
physical  education.  Our  physical  education  director  is  now  on  a  trip  arrang¬ 
ing  for  various  sport  engagements  for  the  coming  months.  We  are  deeply 
interested  in  the  social  application  of  Christianity. 

A.  W.  TAYLOR:  We  believe  there  is  an  emancipation  on  in  Mexico. 
Do  the  leaders  feel  they  owe  any  debt  to  the  Protestant  influence? 

ANSWER:  Do  you  refer  to  revolutionary  leaders  or  intellectual  leaders? 

A.  W.  TAYLOR:  I  refer  to  both. 

ANSWER:  If  you  refer  to  the  men  of  action  of  today  who  represent 
the  government  and  the  labor  groups,  my  opinion  is  there  has  not  been  any 
deep  recognition  of  any  part  by  the  Protestant  church.  Two  lectures  were 
given  on  this  subject  at  the  summer  school.  The  history  of  Mexico  was  re¬ 
viewed  in  its  present  crisis  but  no  reference  was  made  to  Protestantism  and 
its  influence  in  Mexico.  One  man  who  lectured  was  a  product  of  our  school 
but  he  made  no  mention  of  the  Protestant  influence. 

QUESTION:  In  the  viewpoint  of  Protestant  missionaries,  do  they  feel 
that  the  present  situation  in  Mexico  is  indebted  to  Protestantism? 

DR.  OSUNA:  You  must  remember  that  Mexico  has  been  practically 
controlled  by  prejudice  throughout  history.  There  is  a  prejudice  against 
Americans  and  there  is  a  prejudice  against  Protestants.  Many  hesitate  to  ex¬ 
press  their  opinion  but  privately  they  admit  the  influence  of  the  Protestant 
church.  To  illustrate  the  attitude  of  the  government  towards  us,  the  govern¬ 
ment  has  said  that  they  prefer  teachers  of  Protestant  training  because  they 
can  impart  knowledge  more  intelligently  and  fairly. 

I  wish  to  say  something  in  regard  to  the  recognition  of  the  leaders  in 


73 


the  government  towards  Protestant  schools.  This,  of  course,  is  confidential 
and  I  shall  mention  no  names.  I  received  a  telephone  call  from  one  of  the 
ministers  of  the  cabinet  and  he  wished  to  talk  to  me  about  securing  a  school 
in  which  to  place  four  orphans  in  whom  he  was  interested.  He  said  there  were 
plenty  of  schools  around  here  where  he  could  place  the  children  but  he  wanted 
them  placed  in  a  Protestant  school.  Another  man  did  the  same  a  year  ago; 
he  said  distinctly  he  wanted  a  Protestant  school.  Furthermore  the  President 
of  the  Republic  sent  his  protege  to  a  Protestant  school.  The  minister  of 
the  Interior  had  his  daughter  in  a  convent  but  before  the  convent  was  closed 
he  took  her  out  of  there  and  put  her  in  a  Protestant  school.  While  speaking 
to  the  Minister  of  Interior  he  mentioned  the  fact  that  in  no  single  instance 
had  they  ever  had  trouble  with  a  Protestant  because  they  have  all  learned 
to  obey  the  law  and  keep  it. 


An  Indian  School 

Dr.  J.  W.  PUTNAM,  chairman  of  a  subcommittee  of  the  Taylor  group  on 
Mexican  education,  reported  August  5  on  a  visit  to  a  school  for  Indians 
in  Mexico  City: 

One  hundred  and  eighty-five  Indian  boys  appointed  by  the  governors  of 
the  states  are  in  this  school.  These  boys  have  their  first  opportunity  to  speak 
Spanish.  They  all  speak  various  Indian  dia’ects.  It  was  odd  to  find  that  two 
could  speak  English;  they  came  from  near  the  border.  This  school  was  opened 
in  January,  this  year.  The  boys  all  live  there.  Their  aim  is  to  have  the  boys 
brought  into  this  school  learn  what  the  home  is;  they  live  there  in  a  group; 
they  take  their  meals  together.  They  go  to  the  various  public  schools  to 
which  they  are  assigned,  depending  on  the  grade  of  the  student  and  what  he 
is  capable  of  doing.  They  have  school  book  training  and  vocational  training 
in  the  public  schools;  they  all  take  some  type  of  vocational  work. 

In  their  school  there  is  a  keen  young  fellow,  the  physical  director.  From 
him  they  are  learning  to  take  care  of  their  bodies.  Everybody  there  must  learn 
to  speak  Spanish;  it  is  to  be  the  living  language.  In  fact,  they  all  do  speak 
Spanish  now.  It  is  interesting  how  some  of  those  little  fellows  who  have  had 
only  two  or  three  months  training  in  Spanish  are  able  to  speak.  We  are 
entertained  by  their  singing.  They  sang  some  songs  to  show  how  well  they 
can  sing  in  Spanish.  Most  of  these  boys  did  not  know  any  Spanish  at  all 
when  they  began  in  January.  We  also  listened  to  declamations.  They  seem 
dramatic;  it  was  rather  native  to  them;  although  many  of  the  boys  did  not 
understand  what  they  were  saying,  they  have  the  style  of  real  orators. 

They  are  taught  how  to  live  under  modern  conditions.  The  young  man 
in  charge  tells  us  that  on  the  first  night  they  put  the  boys  in  their  beds. 
After  the  lights  were  out,  they  went  through  to  look  after  them  and  found 
many  of  them  under  the  beds.  They  had  never  slept  in  a  bed  before.  All 
of  the  sanitary  conditions  are  most  up-to-date.  They  have  a  small  ward 
for  contagious  disease^,  well  equipped.  The  purpose  of  the  government 
is  to  teach  these  children  Spanish,  teach  them  how  to  take  care  of  themselves, 
and  later  how  to  work,  all  of  which  ideas  they  are  to  carry  back  to  the  tribes 
or  villages  in  which  they  will  be  the  leaders.  They  are  to  help  to  make  the 
lives  of  their  people  better.  I  do  think  that  year  after  year  the  boys 
who  come  into  this  school  and  then  go  back  to  their  people  will  make  ex¬ 
cellent  leaders. 


—74— 


Important  Documents 

CERTAIN  Mexico  City  newspaper  reports  of  governmental  regulations  and 
announcements  in  the  period  immediately  preceding  August  1,  when  the 
penal  code  covering  the  religious  principles  of  the  Mexican  constitution 
became  effective,  are  included  in  this  report,  in  translation,  because  of  their 
aid  to  clearer  understanding. 

The  following  article  was  translated  from  Excelsior,  July  21; 

“The  notice  published  by  the  Excelsior  in  regard  to  the  assumed  atti¬ 
tude  of  the  Attorney  General  of  the  nation  as  delivered  to  the  Department 
of  the  Interior,  who  in  turn  delivered  same  to  the  Judge  of  the  first  district, 
towards  the  thirty-seven  priests  who  refused  to  make  oath  and  give  data  to  the 
Council  of  the  Capital  (Mexico  City)  on  the  information  asked  for,  which 
is  a  part  of  the  act  in  Paragraph  II  of  Article  130  of  the  General  Constitu¬ 
tion  of  the  Republic,  caused  in  all  social  classes  and  principally  in  the  genuine 
Catholic  element  of  the  capital  a  genuine  sensation. 

“The  assignation  of  those  priests  which  was  reported  to  the  public  ex¬ 
clusive' y  by  this  paper,  produced  anticipation  although  not  much  surprise,  but 
in  the  Catholic  element  it  was  conjectured  that  there  had  been  a  previous 
agreement  among  the  priests  of  the  Roman  Catholic  church  in  regard  to  the 
line  of  conduct  which  they  should  follow  in  the  enforcement  of  the  above 
mentioned  article  130  of  the  federal  charter. 

“Now,  the  news  in  regard  to  the  assignation  of  the  aforesaid  priests  has 
been  fudy  confirmed  and  for  this  purpose  we  have  been  given  the  names  of  all 
those  whom  the  Judge  of  the  District  will  from  today  commence  to  examine. 
The  agent  of  the  Department  of  the  Interior  appointed  by  the  Judge  of  the 
First  District,  Attorney  Roman,  yesterday  applied  to  the  Council  of  the 
Capital  asking  them  for  data  and  the  antecedents  in  regard  to  the  circular 
or  notice  circulated  amongst  the  priests  who  officiate  in  Mexico  and  the 
response  given  by  them  to  the  said  circular.  In  the  succeeding  action  taken 
by  the  Council  on  this  matter,  it  is  clear  from  the  replies  that  the  priests  gave 
to  the  Circular  which  was  distributed  amongst  them,  that  they  had  been  for¬ 
bidden  to  give  or  render  any  information  asked  for;  which  instructions  were 
given  to  them  by  His  Excellency,  the  Archbishop  of  Mexico,  Dr.  Jose  Mora 
y  del  Rio.  There  existed  such  an  uniformity  in  the  above  mentioned  replies 
that  all  of  the  priests,  in  the  document  directed  to  the  mayor  of  the  city, 
end  with  the  following  religious  phrase:  ‘May  God  watch  over  you  for 
many  years.’  The  text  of  the  circular  and  the  replies  of  the  priests  con¬ 
demned  served  as  a  basis  for  the  process,  which  the  Judge  of  the  First  Dis¬ 
trict  has  commenced  to  formulate  and  in  which  shall  be  included  the  state¬ 
ments  rendered  by  each  one  of  those  indicted  in  order  to  fully  review  this 
matter. 

“The  priests  who  are  the  subject  of  this  judicial  inquiry,  as  well  as  the 
paidshes  to  which  they  belong,  are  as  follows:  Jesus  Franco,  of  the  Church 
of  Porta-Coeli;  Andres  Ibarra  of  Jesus  the  Nazarene;  Jose  Ugarte  of  Mon- 
serrat;  Antonio  R.  Espinosa  of  St.  James;  Jose  Ma.  Araiza  of  Our  Lady  of 
Guadalupe  (Buen  Tono)  ;  Salvador  M.  Garciduenas,  of  the  Church  of  the 
Sanctuary  of  Our  Lady  of  the  Angels;  Juan  M.  Escobar  of  the  Church  of 
Bethlehem  of  Mercedarios:  Adrian  M.  Cervantes,  of  the  Expiatory  Temple  of 
St.  Phillip  of  Jesus;  Maclovio  Ramirez  Lozano,  of  the  Parish  of  St.  Joseph; 
Carlos  M.  Velez,  of  the  Parish  of  St.  Catherine  the  Martyr;  Fernando  Marin, 
of  the  Church  of  St.  Michael;  Juan  C.  Villegas,  of  the  Church  of  St.  Ferdinand; 
Pedro  Benavides  of  the  Church  of  St.  Jerome;  Luis  Benitez  of  the  Church 


—75— 


of  St.  Ferdinand;  J.  Ramirez  of  the  Church  of  St.  Bridget;  Tomas  Moreno 
of  the  Church  of  the  Regina  Coeli;  Alejandro  Silva  of  the  Church  of  Little 
St.  Jerome;  Enrique  Hernandez  of  the  Church  of  Manzanares;  Luis  Montes 
de  Oco  of  the  Church  of  the  Sacred  Heart;  Jesus  G.  Guerra  of  the  House 
of  Prayer  of  the  Sacred  Heart;  Domingo  S.  Blancas  of  the  Asylum  of  Matias 
Romero;  Luis  Careaga  of  the  Church  of  Sta.  Maria  la  Redonda;  Ismael  A. 
Laguna  of  the  Church  of  the  Immaculate  Conception;  Fernado  Benian  of 
the  Parish  of  Guadalupe;  Manuel  Tiberio  Olio  of  the  Church  of  Carmen; 
Cipriano  Jimenez  of  the  Church  of  Campo  Florido ;  Raul  Silva  of  the  Church 
of  the  Sacred  Heart,  (formerly  St,  Inez)  ;  Mariano  Navarro  of  the  Church  of 
the  Rosary;  and  without  any  definite  parish  Messrs.  M.  Martinez  and  Mauricio 
Quintas. 

“Besides,  there  have  also  been  condemned  the  parsons  of  the  temples  of 
Our  Lady  of  Loreto,  of  the  Holy  Spirit,  of  Santo  Domingo,  of  St.  Lucas  and 
of  the  House  of  Prayer  of  G.  F.  Pimental.” 


The  issuance  of  rules  governing  private  primary  schools  was  reported 
by  Excelsior  July  23: 

“Yesterday  at  mid-day  the  President  of  the  Republic  signed  the  decree 
for  the  inspection  and  guarding  of  the  private  primary  schools  of  the  District 
and  of  the  Federated  Territories.  Said  decree  contains  a  radical  reform  in 
the  rules  published  by  the  Minister  of  Education  and  decides  at  the  same  time 
the  points  which  were  left  to  arbitration  after  the  discussion  of  the  said  rules 
by  the  combined  cornmittees  representing  the  Department  of  Education  and 
the  private  schools,  including  the  Catholic  schools.  The  regulations  provide 
that,  at  once,  all  instruction  which  shall  be  imparted  in  these  private  schools, 
whether  incorporated  or  not,  shall  be  secular;  that  v/ithin  the  schools, 
even  when  there  are  boarders,  that  is,  when  they  are  after  a  manner 
homes,  there  shall  not  exist  either  chapels  or  place  reserved  for  prayer; 
neither  shall  there  be  any  sketches  or  charts  of  a  religious  nature.  All  of  these 
schools  are  under  the  same  official,  watchful  restriction  in  the  matter  of 
hygiene  and  of  educational  programs.  Beginning  yesterday,  the  date  of 
enforcement  of  this  decree,  there  shall  be  granted  to  the  principals  of  these 
private  schools  a  period  of  grace  in  which  to  announce  that  they  have  put  their 
institutions  in  full  accord  with  the  said  rules. 

“Yesterday  (the  very  day)  there  was  sent  to  the  Secretary  of  the  Interior 
the  Regulation  above  referred  to,  which  reads  as  follows: 

CHAPTER  I. 

Primary  Private  Schools  in  General. 

Art.  1.  Private  primary  schools  are  decreed  to  be  those  which  are  main¬ 
tained  with  private  funds.  In  these,  the  teaching  shall  be  secular;  that  is  to 
say,  religion  shall  not  be  taught,  defended  nor  attacked  in  any  manner  what¬ 
soever. 

Art.  2.  These  schools  may  be  of  two  classes:  (1)  Incorporated  under  the 
Department  of  Education;  (2)  Unincorporated.  , 

Art.  3.  The  incorporated  schoo's  shall  be  those  that  accept  the  official 
programs,  those  that  develop  to  the  extent  and  with  the  intensity  that  is  re¬ 
quired  in  the  similar  official  schools  and  which  respond  to  the  obligations 
as  placed  by  this  rule.  The  certificates  that  are  issued  to  these  schools 
shall  have  the  same  value  as  those  of  the  official  schools. 

Art.  4.  The  unincorporated  schools  are  those  which  do  not  meet  the 
requirements  enumerated  in  the  former  article.  The  certificates  issued  to 


— 76- 


him  shall  not  have  the  same  value  as  those  of  the  official  schools. 

Art.  5.  The  establishment  of  a  school  may  only  be  accomplished  after 
those  interested  shall  have  made  a  declaration  or  statement  before  the  De¬ 
partment  of  Education,  containing:  (1)  A  rough  sketch  or  drawing  made  on 
a  scale  of  actual  measurements;  (2)  The  designation  and  location  of  the 
school:  Through  or  by  the  designation  of  the  school,  the  school  shall  have 
no  qualifying  word  to  indicate  that  it  has  or  is  of  a  religious  nature,  nor  a 
single  qualification  to  indicate  that  it  is  dependent  upon  religious  corpo¬ 
rations  or  orders;  (3)  The  kind  or  class  of  teaching,  whether  elementai'y  or 
upper  class  teaching,  whether  day  or  night,  that  shall  be  given  in  it;  (4)  The 
greatest  number  of  boarding  school  pupils  possible,  as  well  as  the  “half” 
boarding  pupils  and  day  pupils  that  shall  be  admitted;  (5)  Whether  the 
teaching  shall  be  gratuitous  or  remunerative;  (6)  Whether  incorporated  or 
unincorporated,  and  its  kind. 

CHAPTER  II. 

Of  the  School  Premises. 

Art.  6.  The  primary  private  schools  shall  have  no  hail,  room  for  prayer 
or  chapel  especially  for  religious  services,  nor  in  the  class  rooms,  nor  in  the 
corridors,  nor  in  the  vestibules,  nor  in  the  shops,  nor  in  the  gymnasium,  nor 
in  any  other  part  of  the  establishment,  nor  any  decorations,  pictures,  charts, 
drawings,  sculpture  or  other  objects  of  any  religious  nature  whatsoever. 

Art.  7.  The  school  edifices  in  regard  to  hygienic  conditions  must  con¬ 
form  to  the  regulations  of  the  sanitary  code. 

Art.  8.  The  department  of  psychopedagogy  and  hygiene  of  the  Depart¬ 
ment  of  Public  Education  shall  judge  or  determine  the  hygienic  conditions  of 
the  buildings  and  furniture  of  the  private  schools  in  the  meaning  of  Article  396 
of  the  Sanitary  Code  in  force. 

CHAPTER  III. 

In  regard  to  the  teaching  force  and  the  pupils. 

Art.  9.  To  be  principal  of  an  incorporated  school,  the  following  re¬ 
quirements  must  be  complied  with:  (1)  One  shall  have  a  moral  standing 
for  teaching;  (2)  One  shall  not  be  a  minister  of  any  faith;  (3)  One  shall  be 
licensed  or  shall  have  obtained  the  title  of  professor  of  education  or  primary 
instruction,  or  shall  have  had  five  years,  when  less,  of  practical  teaching  or 
possess  the  necessary  aptitude  for  it;  (4)  One  shall  not  have  been  discharged 
in  the  olficial  schools  for  incompetence  or  bad  conduct,  duly  proven. 

Art.  10.  To  be  director  of  a  school  that  is  not  incorporated,  it  is  re¬ 
quired:  (1)  One  shall  have  the  moral  standing  for  teaching;  (2)  One  shall 

not  be  a  minister  of  any  faith. 

Art.  11.  The  teachers  shall  possess  the  requisites  as  the  respective  priiMii- 
pals  excepting  that  of  not  being  a  minister  of  any  faith. 

Art.  12.  In  each  incorporated  school,  there  shall  be  the  principal  and 
the  necessary  teachers"  to  the  end  that  no  one  shall  have  more  than  fifty  pupils 
in  his  charge,  nor  more  than  two  groups  of  pupils,  excepaing  those  who  teach 
special  subjects. 

Art.  13.  The  pupils  in  the  private  schools  shall  be  of  not  less  than 
the  average  according  to  law,  as  required  in  the  official  primary  schoojs. 

CHAPTER  IV. 

Official  Inspection. 

Art.  14.  The  Department  of  Public  Education  for  the  advancement  of 
the  Department  of  Primary  Education  and  Normal  Instruction,  will  exercise 


—77 — 


the  same  inspection  in  the  private  schools  v/ith  the  object  of  procuring  com¬ 
pliance  with  Article  3  of  the  Constitution  and  with  this  Regulation. 

Art.  15.  In  the  incorporated  schools,  the  inspection  of  the  Department 
of  Primary  Normal  Instruction  shall  extend  in  order  to  assure;  (1)  That 
the  course  of  study  shall  be  the  same  as  the  specified  curriculum  for  similar 
official  schools;  (2)  that  the  programs  of  the  subjects  to  be  taught  shall  be 
developed  in  accordance  with  the  provision  contained  in  Article  3  of  this 
Regulation;  (3)  that  in  principle  they  shaR  adopt  the  same  official  text  books, 
that  if  others  shall  be  adopted,  it  shall  be  declared  or  announced  to  the  De¬ 
partment  of  Public  Education,  which  alone  can  reject  them  when  they  shall  be 
contrary  to  the  religious  teaching  and  the  public  institutions;  (5)  that  they 
shall  follow  the  same  courses  as  the  official  schools  along  educative  methods: 
(1)  that  on  the  final  examinations  they  shall  adopt  the  official  grading  for 
the  promotion  of  pupils;  (2)  that  they  shall  render  reports  on  the  teaching 
asked  for  by  the  Department!  of  Education;  (3)  that  they  shall  render  all 
classes  of  statistical  data  on  the  scholastic  operations. 

Art.  16.  The  incorporated  schools  shaT  follow  the  quidance  of  the 
official  inspectors  insofar  as  deficiences  observed  in  the  development  and  in¬ 
tensity  of  the  programs. 

Art.  17.  If  the  principal  of  an  incorporated  school  shall  not  be  in  ac¬ 
cord  with  the  guidance  of  the  inspector  or  the  manner  of  inspection,  he  shall 
then  make  complaint  to  the  Department  of  Public  Education,  w'hich,  in  con¬ 
sideration  of  the  reports  of  the  inspector,  the  objections  of  the  principal  of 
the  school,  from  the  information  solicited  and  after  hearing  all  points  on  both 
sides,  shall  decide  the  justice  of  the  case. 

Art.  18.  The  scholastic  year  for  the  incorporated  schools  shall  have  at 
least  185  work  days;  and  each  day  shall  have  a  minimum  of  five  hours  and 
a  maximum  of  six  hours.  These  scholastic  work  days  shall  be  freely  fixed  by 
the  principals  of  the  schools. 

Art.  19.  The  lack  of  observance,  duly  proven,  of  the  regulations  for 
the  incorporated  schools,  in  case  of  failure  to  correct  such,  shall  give  place 
to  disincorporation. 

Art.  20.  The  temporary  or  final  closing  of  any  school  shall  be  determined 
by  the  Department  of  Public  Education,  in  accordance  with  the  corresponding 
law,  when  it  has  been  proven  that  the  actual  meaning  of  religious  teaching 
as  in  this  regulation,  has  been  infringed  upon. . 

CHAPTER  V. 

Art.  21.  The  schools  of  the  states  that  desire  to  be  incorporated  by  the 
Department  of  Public  Education  shall  comply  with  this  regulation  and  be 
subject  to  the  inspection  of  the  respective  direction  of  federal  public  education. 

*  Art.  22.  The  Department  of  Education  shall  grant  subsidies  to  the  in¬ 
corporated  schools  that  impart  learning  gratuitously  or  should  they  merit  it 
for  special  circumstances. 

TRANSITORY — Schools  already  established  shall  render  within  a  period 
of  one  month,  dating  from  the  date  of  the  enforcement  of  this  law,  the  in¬ 
formation  required  in  Article  5.” 


El ‘Universal  published  July  23  the  following  article: 

“We  insert  below  the  text  of  the  letter  that  the  Pope  directed  to  the 
Catholics  of  the  whole  world,  asking  that  on  the  first  and  second  days  of 
August,  within  the  Catholic  sphere,  there  may  be  an  hour’s  prayer  for 
Mexico,  that  the  situation  created  by  the  various  creeds,  shall  cease.  The 
letter  says: 


—78— 


“  ‘The  Holy  Father,  grieved  over  the  religious  persecution  in  Mexico  which 
continues  to  increase  each  day,  invites  all  Catholics  to  unite  with  him  in  the 
special  prayers  which  shall  be  sent  above  on  the  first  and  second  days  of 
August. 

“  ‘As  in  the  first  days  of  the  church,  when  Peter  was  imprisoned  by 
Herod,  the  prayers  of  ,;the  church  procured  miraculous  liberation,  so  the 
successor  of  Peter  hopes  that  the  public  prayers  of  the  church  shall  procure 
the  tranquility  and  peace  to  her  persecuted  children  in  Mexico. 

“  ‘And,  as  on  the  second  of  August,  the  faithful,  through  the  intercession 
of  St.  Francis,  whose  death  was  celebrated  in  the  seventh  century,  seek  from 
God  the  pardon,  as  does  the  Pope  desire  that  we  shall  ask  the  pardon  of  those 
who  may  be  persecuting  us,  in  order  that  they  may  also  recognize  their  offense 
in  taking  away  from  the  church  the  privileges  which  it  does  not  seek,  besides 
its  essential  liberty,  to  which  every  institution  has  a  right.’ 

“Cardinal  Gasparri  signs  this  letter.” 


In  the  issue  of  July  23,  El  Universal  published  a  statement  from  Senor 
Tejeda,  Minister  of  the  Interior,  and  discussed  it  as  follows: 

“Engineer  Adelberto  Tejeda,  Secretary  of  the  Interior,  did  us  the  favor 
to  give  us  his  opinion  in  regard  to  the  recent  editorial  published  in  El  Uni¬ 
versal. 

“  ‘The  press,’  said  Mr.  Tejeda,  ‘in  the  editorials  of  the  day,  has  come  to 
discuss  the  reforms  made  in  the  Penal  Code  in  regard  to  religious  matters, 
mainly  those  which  refer  to  publications  of  a  confessional  or  religious  nature, 
and  are  considered  to  be  in  violation  of  Article  7  of  the  Constitution  through 
the  law  enacted  August  2  of  the  present  year.” 

“  ‘Article  13  of  this  law  may  be  judged,  omitting  the  citation  of  Article 
130  of  the  Constitution,  which  literal’y  says: 

“The  periodical  publications  of  a  confessional  character,  even  by  their 
program,  or  simply  by  their  ordinary  trend,  cannot  comment  upon  national 
political  matters  nor  give  information  on  the  acts  of  the  authorities  of  the 
country,  nor  of  individuals  who  are  directly  connected  with  the  functioning  of 
the  public  institutions.” 

“  ‘By  which  it  is  discerned  in  a  clear  and  definite  manner  that  the  govern¬ 
ment  is  acting  within  the  rights  granted  by  the  Constitution  in  having  set 
beside  the  reforms  mentioned  the  corresponding  penal  ratification.’ 

“This  publication,  notwithstanding  the  opinion  of  the  Minister  of  the 
Interior,  maintains  and  continues  to  maintain  that  Article  13  of  the  Law  of 
June  14,  1926,  enacted  July  2,  is  unconstitutional.  To  prove  it,  it  is  only 
necessary  to  dwell  upon  that  paragraph  of  Article  130  which  is  quoted  by 
Minister  Tejeda,  speaking  of  publications  of  a  confessional  character,  as  may 
be  seen  by  their  program,  by  their  title  or  merely  by  their  ordinary  trend, 
inasmuch  as  the  above  mentioned  Article  13  speaks  of  ‘periodical  publications, 
religious  or  MERELY  OF  MARKED  TENDENCIES  in  favor  of  a  definite 
religious  belief,  as  much  by  their  program  as  by  their  title.’  Under  the 
regulations  of  this  Articlq  13,  it  may  be  understood  by  the  agents  of  the 
government  to  apply  even  to  the  magazines  which  could  not  remotely  be 
considered  confessional,  for  the  sole  reason  that  publishing  religious  notices 
or  religious  opinions  they  may  appear  to  have  religious  tendencies:  inasmuch 
as  the  paragraph  in  regard  to  Article  130  of  the  Constitution  clearly  es¬ 
tablishes  that  the  restrictions  refer  to  magazines  of  a  ‘confessional  nature.’ 

“Besides,  in  Article  130,  it  speaks  of  ‘ordinary  tendencies’  or  ‘trend’  or 
it  might  be  ‘common,’  ‘regular,’  according  to  the  meaning  given  to  the  word 


79— 


‘ordinary’  by  the  Dictionary  of  the  Spanish  Language:  in  Article  13  of  the 
Law  of  Reforms  to  the  Penal  Code,  it  speaks  of  ‘Marked  Tendencies.’  Within 
this  classification  of  ‘marked,’  accordingly,  it  might  be  easily  understood  from 
the  Minister  that  it  might  be  within  the  judgment  of  the  AGENTS  OF  THE 
GOVERNMENT,  that  from  the  Encyclic  of  the  Pope  to  the  cross  in  the 
‘Prayer  to  God  by  him’  in  the  death  announcements. 

“We  insist,  therefore,  that  Article  13  is  clearly  unconstitutional;  it  shall, 
therefore,  be  necessary  to  proceed  always  to  appeal  for  protection  each  time 
that  it  shall  be  applied.” 

Excelsior  pub  ished  August  3  a  special  dispatch  concerning  the  views  of 
General  Obregon,  formerly  President  of  Mexico: 

NOGALES,  SONORA,  AUGUST  2 — General  of  Division  Alvaro  Obregon,  ex¬ 
president  of  the  Republic,  who  arrived  here  today,  interviewed  in  regard  to 
the  religious  conflict,  made  the  following  statements  to  the  Excelsior  cor¬ 
respondent: 

“It  is  evident  that  the  high  dignitaries  of  the  Catholic  church  have  pro¬ 
voked  this  conflict,  when,  by  the  mouth  of  their  highest  representative,  Sr.  Mora 
y  del  Rio,  they  hurled  forth  their  first  statements  in  a  spirit  of  rebellion  against 
the  fundamental  laws  that  are  enforced  by  us. 

“These  statements,  without  having  occurred  any  incident  whatsoever  to 
provoke  them,  concurred  with  the  international  crisis  which  has  been  provoked 
or  brought  about  by  the  great  foreign  interests  which  were  thought  to  have 
been  wronged  by  the  enactment  of  the  petroleum  and  foreign  interests  laws, 
and  all  of  us  who  know  the  motives  of  the  clergy  in  the  different  international 
conflicts,  both  political  and  armed,  with  which  Mexico  has  had  to  contend 
since  her  independence,  must  take  note  that  this  coincidence  was  not  a  mere 
happening;  that  that  deliberate  act  had  for  its  purpose  the  laying  up  of  another 
difficulty  and  to  show  that  the  discontented  foreigners  who  are  within  our 
very  own  borders  had  allied  themselves  to  contest  our  own  constitution,  thus 
placing  the  faith  of  the  believers  at  the  services  of  political  interests. 

“The  international  crisis  was  decided  sometime  ago,  but  the  pride  of  the 
high  clergy  has  been  too  great  to  be  satisfied,  and  they  have  dictated  a  series 
of  commands  trying  to  establish  a  real  struggle  against  the  Federal  Government. 

“It  is  natural  that  in  complying  with  certain  laws  that  had  to  be  enacted 
by  the  government  as  a  consequence  of  this  attitude,  and  through  the  interven¬ 
tion  of  authorities  of  different  rank,  that  certain  disagi’eeable  incidents  should 
be  registered. 

“The  conflict  will  disappear  automatically  when  the  directors  of  the 
Mexican  churches  subordinate  their  now  wounded  vanity,  declaring  themselves 
disposed  to  obey  said  laws  and  to  the  authorities  encharged  with  the  vigilance 
for  the  compliance  of  this  legislation,  advising  this  line  of  conduct  to  all 
believers.” 


President  Calles  made  the  following  statement  to  John  Page,  a  representa¬ 
tive  of  the  Hearst  newspapers  in  North  America,  as  reported  in  Excelsior 
July  26: 

“In  regard  to  the  questionnaire  presented  by  Mr.  John  Page,  correspond¬ 
ent  of  the  Hearst  newspapers,  and  in  which  he  asked  me,  first,  if  the  manifesto 
of  the  so-called  National  Defense  League  of  Religious  Liberty  and  its  project 
to  bring  about  the  paralyzation  of  the  social  and  economic  life  of  the  country 
is  mutinous;  secondly,  if  the  project  in  question  can  affect  in  any  way  the 
life  in  Mexico,  socially  and  economically;  and,  thirdly,  if  the  government  over 
which  I  preside  can  mollify  the  reforms  and  additions  to  the  penal  code,  about 


—80— 


which  the  members  of  the  League  have  complained,  I  desire  to  state; 

“The  judicial  authorities  will  determine  whether  the  sheets  recently  dis¬ 
tributed  by  the  National  League  for  Religious  Liberty  are  of  a  seditious  nature 
Or  not,  though  it  can  already  be  said  that  it  is  attempted  to  disturb  public  order, 
because  the  economic  crisis  which  is  sought  by  the  League  will,  if  achieved, 
bring  about  serious  disturbances  of  public  peace.  However,  the  purpose  of  the 
Catholic  agitators  will  be  a  failure,  and  a  substantial  evidence  of  the  lack  of 
strength  of  those  people. 

The  economic  life  of  Mexico  is  not  dependent  on  the  activities  of  groups 
who  are  disgusted  with  the  Revolutionary  government  of  the  country.  Neither 
the  industry  and  the  commerce  have  ever  been  dependent  on  the  group  of 
political  agitators  who  have  started  this  ridiculous  movement.  Besides,  the  live 
forces  of  Mexico  have  always  been  developed  without  being  led  by  those  who 
make  use  of  religion  for  exhibition  purposes  or  seeking  profits.  These  live 
forces,  in  the  hands  of  Catholics,  Protestants,  or  members  of  any  other  religious 
denomination,  are  not  affected  by  the  decisions  taken  by  badly  intentioned 
groups.” 

President  Calles  then  declared  that  in  order  to  form  an  opinion  of  the 
present  religious  situation,  it  is  necessarj'^  to  remember  certain  incidents  brought 
about  by  high  church  dignitaries,  adding  that  Archbishop  Mora  y  del  Rio  of 
Mexico  City,  on  three  different  occasions,  has  publicly  announced  his  intention 
to  oppose  and  fight  the  Constitution  of  1917. 

“This  cannot  be  overlooked  by  the  government  because  it  would  imply 
weakness  on  its  part,  as  it  meant  a  dangerous  opportunity  to  disturb  public 
order,”  says  Calles.  “Now  W'^hat  is  the  government  of  any  country  to  do, 
when  a  social  group,  religious  or  otherwise,  publicly  rejects  the  fundamental 
laws  of  the  country,  and  announces  its  purpose  to  fight  them,  inciting  the 
peoples  to  repudiate  the  Constitution?  What  could  my  government  do  but 
devote  its  attention  to  those  Constitutional  clauses  connected  with  the  clergy’s 
protest,  and  demand  a  strict  obedience  of  the  law?  Thus  the  religious  con¬ 
flict  was  created.  We  have  had  no  need  to  pass  new  laws,  but  merely  to 
enforce  those  already  effective  since  the  times  of  Reform,  some  fifty  years 
ago,  and  since  1917  when  the  present  Constitution  was  enacted.  Regulations 
have  been  issued  establishing  penalties  in  accordance  with  the  law. 

“The  amendments  of  the  Penal  Code,  which  brought  about  this  curious 
campaign  ‘to  paralyze  the  economic  and  social  life  of  the  country’,  were 
logically  necessary,  because,  otherwise,  the  enforcement  of  the  Constitutional 
clauses  would  be  impossible.  Moreover,  the  clergy  were  violating  them,  a 
fact  which  they  themselves  publicly  admitted.  These  penalties  were  established 
in  accordance  with  the  authority  invested  in  us  by  Congress.  On  the  other 
hand,  such  penalties  are  neither  excessive  nor  different  nor  superior  from 
those  of  the  Constitutions  in  all  the  civilized  world. 

“Since  the  beginning  we  clearly  stated  that  the  Government’s  conduct, 
whatever  our  sentiment  or  philosophic  or  religious  ideas  might  be,  would  not 
be  based  on  persecution  impulses,  or  rancour,  or  ill  will  against  the  Arch¬ 
bishops  and  Bishops  who  had  signed  the  repudiation  of  the  Constitution  and 
the  appeal  to  rebellion,  because  such  were  in  reality  the  documents  printed 
by  the  newspaper  El  Universal. 

“The  best  demonstration  that  such  is  the  truth  is  the  fact  that  we  pro¬ 
ceeded  to  enforce  the  Constitution,  knowing  well  that  one  of  the  first  results 
to  be  derived  from  our  action  “would  be  favorable  to  the  Mexican  clergy, 
through  the  automatic  elimination  of  the  foreign  priests,  who  had  not  signed 
any  protest  and  were,  in  some  cases,  an  obstacle  for  the  development  of  the 
policies  adopted  by  the  bad  Mexican  clergy.  However-,  they  were  forced  to 


—81 


abandon  the  country  because  it  was  demanded  by  the  Constitution. 

“However,  frankly  speaking,  I  believe  that  rather  than  the  clergy  them¬ 
selves,  the  ones  obstructing  the  administrative  task  of  the  Government  are 
people  who  agitate  themselves  close  to  the  clergy  and  disguise  themselves,  as 
I  have  already  stated,  with  a  religious  cloak  to  cover  their  old  reactionary 
tendencies  of  hatred  of  the  government  and  the  men  of  the  revolution. 

“If  we  analyze  the  personalities  of  these  people  who  organize  the  National 
League  for  the  Defense  of  Religious  Liberty,  or  of  the  Feminist  Associations 
of  pseudo-Catholic  women  who  once  in  a  while  organize  street  manifestations 
with  their  female  servants  (most  of  them  being  careful  to  remain  at  home,  and, 
of  course,  leaving  their  husbands  behind),  or  of  the  more  or  less  well  defined 
groups  that  have  been  hampering  the  work  of  the  authorities  for  several  months 
throughout  the  country,  we  may  easily  reach  the  following  conclusions: 

“Those  men  are  attorneys  who  must  make  a  strong  showing  of  their 
religious  zeal  in  order  to  be  pointed  out  by  public  opinion  as  being  ‘strong 
pillars  of  the  Church’,  and  as  courageous  men  ready  to  fight  on  behalf  of  their 
religion,  because  this  will  be  translated  into  powers  of  attorney  to  handle  funds 
or  property  belonging  to  religious  institutions,  or  in  appointments  as  managers 
or  attorneys  of  the  clergy.  Also  they  are  enabled  to  exploit  those  candid  people 
who  believe  that  the  religious  sentiments,  which  are  ostentatiously  displayed,  are 
sufficient  guarantee  of  honesty  and  efficiency. 

“Another  very  interesting  group  of  actors  in  this  religious  conflict  is 
formed  by  professional  political  agitators,  who,  disguised  as  Catholics,  organized 
in  the  past  a  National  Catholic  Party  which  posed  as  a  great  friend  of  Presi¬ 
dent  Madero.  But,  on  the  day  after  Madero’s  murder  that  Party  entered  into 
an  alliance  with  Victoriano  Huerta. 

“Next  came  the  National  Agricultural  Syndicates,  organized  by  so-called 
ranch  owners  who  succeeded  in  corrupting  several  revolutionary  leaders  in  1923. 
This  they  did  merely  with  promises  because  they  were,  and  still  are,  incapable 
of  raising  the  necessary  funds  to  pay  those  they  corrupt.  These  Syndicates 
before,  during,  and  after  my  presidential  campaign,  have  been  dreaming  of 
misleading  the  will  of  the  Mexican  people,  and  today  they  are  cooperating  with 
the  League  for  the  Defense  of  Religious  Liberty,  receiving  a  weak  support  from 
the  Archbishop  of  Mexico.  And  they  keep  on  repeating  in  every  two  lines  of 
their  appeal  for  the  paralyzing  of  social  and  economic  activities,  that  their  pur¬ 
pose  is  peaceful  and  orderly,  so  that  if  any  disorders  are  brought  about  by  an 
economic  crisis,  they  may  not  be  held  responsible. 

“Also  the  Archbishop  and  Bishops  who  are  now  giving  their  approval  to  the 
proposed  campaign,  would  not  like  to  be  held  responsible  for  any  possible  riots, 
in  which  case  they  will  claim  that  they  counselled  ‘an  orderly  and  peaceful 
action’.  But  they  do  not  dare  (as  they  perhaps  desire  in  view  of  the  danger 
in  which  they  may  find  themselves  should  the  campaign  succeed)  to  condemn 
the  movement,  fearing  that  the  ignorant  Catholics  might  think  that  their  re¬ 
pudiation  was  an  act  of  cowardice  before  the  ‘chivalrous  and  generous  atti¬ 
tude’  of  the  political  agitators  who  are  defending  the  bad  Catholicism. 

“I  know  that  it  is  very  hard  for  the  people  of  the  United  States  to  under¬ 
stand  that  there  are  wicked  men  who  try  to  cover  their  political  ambitions 
under  a  religious  cloak.  I  envy  the  United  States  in  that  respect,  and  I  do 
know  quite  well  that  there  is  not  a  single  provision  in  the  American  Con¬ 
stitution  connected  with  the  religious  question,  because  the  churches  in  that 
country  have  established  a  frontier  between  religious  attitude  and  conduct 
and  political  activities  and  interests,  while  in  our  country,  since  the  days  of 
independence  to  our  present  times,  the  intervention  of  the  Catholic  Church 
in  teriiporal  and  political  affairs,  has  been  a  constant  historical  problem,  with- 


—82 


out  understanding  that  such  an  intervention  is  the  cause  of  the  gradual  weak¬ 
ening  of  the  spiritual  influence  which  the  Mexican  Catholic  Church  has  been 
experiencing  for  decades,  to  such  an  extent,  that  today,  with  the  exceptions  I 
have  mentioned,  and  of  a  small  percentage  of  sincere  Catholics  unable  to  see 
through  the  intrigues  of  the  agitators,  all  the  other  Mexican  Catholics,  who  are 
good  Mexicans,  have  divided  their  religious  duties  from  the  obedience  demanded 
of  them  by  their  bad  pastors  who  are  after  political  or  temporal  gains. 

“Naturally,  my  Government  does  not  even  contemplate  to  make  less  drastic 
the  amendments  to  the  Penal  Code,  used  by  the  political  Catholic  agitators  and 
the  bad  prelates  in  Mexico  as  a  pretext  for  opposing  the  social  constructive 
revolutionary  work  we  are  carrying  out.  Each  new  opposition  or  demonstration 
of  animosity  or  desire  to  hinder  my  government’s  work  will  serve  to  establish 
new  penalties  for  those  who  refuse  to  obey  the  laws  of  the  country.  Cam¬ 
paigns,  like  that  which  is  being  contemplated,  only  serve  to  show  the  lack  of 
strength  of  those  who  planned  this  criminal  movement  which,  if  successful, 
can  hardly  injure  my  government.  On  the  other  hand,  it  would  cause  irrep¬ 
arable  damages  to  the  large  majority  of  the  Mexican  family.  It  would  also 
be  a  victory  for  the  revolution  because,  if  the  plan  was  successful,  the  above 
mentioned  majorities  would  despite  and  hate  those  ‘paralyzers  of  life  in 
Mexico.’  It  could  reasonably  be  said  of  them  that  they  were  so  wicked  and 
egotistical  that  they  led  the  majorities  to  need  and  poverty  and  even  to  death, 
in  order  to  satisfy,  under  a  mask  of  Catholicism,  old  hatreds  and  bastard 
political  ambitions.” 


Pro-Calles  Parade  Legends 

The  parade  held  August  1,  arranged  by  the  C.  R.  O.  M.  as  a  demonstration 
of  loyalty  to  the  Calles  program  in  general  as  well  as  in  the  religious  con¬ 
troversy,  had  about  50,000  marchers.  Many  banners  were  carried,  with  legends 
in  Spanish.  Some  of  them,  as  translated  by  an  American  missionary,  were : 

The  inquisition  is  the  Christian  work  of  the  Roman  church. 

Not  a  woman  to  the  confession  and  not  a  cent  to  the  church. 

General  Calles,  here  we  are ! 

The  Catholic  Priest  is  a  parasite  on  society. 

The  Roman  church  displays  its  pomp,  but  Christianity  despises  riches. 
Anathema  on  those  who  disturb  the  peace. 

Viva  Calles,  follower  of  Juarez. 

Our  Great  Constitution  has  found  in  President  Calles  a  faithful  interpreter. 
Catholics,  what  liberty  has  the  church  secured  for  you?  Look  for  them. 
The  work  of  President  Calles  exalts  the  government. 

We  are  with  the  President  because  he  is  on  the  side  of  reason. 

To  make  the  nation  great  is  the  work  of  President  Calles. 

Sane  people  applaud  the  uprightness  of  General  Calles. 

The  work  of  President  Calles  has  made  him  great. 

Being  on  the  side  of  President  Calles  is  to  be  on  the  side  of  justice. 

The  Pro-Constitution  Union  of  Public  Employees. 

The  confession  subverts  the  morals  of  the  people. 

The  clergy  rich — the  people  poor. 

The  Mexican  women  emancipated  from  the  tutelage  of  the  clergy. 

There  is  no  religious  problem,  it  is  simply  a  question  of  clerical  pride. 
Anathema  on  you,  disturbers  of  the  peace. 

The  law  supreme  and  over  everybody. 


—83— 


Let  the  pirates  of  the  conscience  tremble. 

By  their  fruits  ye  shall  know  them.  Matthew  7:10. 

Our  laws  do  not  approve  any  religion,  but  regulate  all  of  them. 

Mexican  citizens  not  servants  of  Rome. 

Let  those  who  make  merchandise  of  the  temple  get  out. 

The  clergy,  the  enemy  of  liberty  of  thought. 

Comrades,  the  common  school  destroys  fanaticism. 

To  gain  temporal  power  the  church  poured  out  rivers  of  blood. 

Catholic  education  has  produced  a  superabundance  of  ignorance. 

For  temple,  the  universe;  for  priest,  the  conscience. 

The  Pope  does  not  govern  Mexico. 

Compliance  with  the  law  is  the  salvation  of  the  people. 

Down  with  priestly  control. 

The  rebellion  of  the  clergy  has  solidified  the  workers  behind  President 
Calles. 

With  the  Mexican  money  which  goes  to  Rome  every  year  we  could  alleviate 
much  misery  and  destroy  much  ignorance. 

Liberals  with  conviction. 

The  curate  uses  the  confession  to  deceive  the  husband. 

The  soul  of  Juarez  lives  in  the  breast  of  Calles. 

Let  your  religion  be  honor,  dignity,  study,  and  work. 

The  supremacy  of  Rome  cannot  be  over  the  sovereignty  of  Mexico. 

Large  estates  created  by  blood. 

Either  Mexicans  or  subjects  of  the  Pope. 

It  has  been  declared  a  sin  to  take  ice  cream,  chewing  gum  and  movies. 
Is  it  not  treason  to  try  to  paralyze  the  life  of  the  Republic? 


Central  American  Conditions 

SOLOMON  DE  LA  SELVA,  a  native  of  Nicaragua,  a  Roman  Catholic,  educated 
in  the  United  States,  now  employed  by  the  Calles  government,  spoke  to  the 
group  in  the  Princess  hotel  Friday  afternoon,  August  6,  following  the  address 
of  Dr.  Rettinger.  He  said: 

I  want  to  take  you  to  Central  America,  which  has  the  same  labor  problems 
that  Mexico  had  before  the  revolution  and  the  organization  of  the  federation 
of  labor  here.  Central  America  is  a  continuation  of  Mexico;  or,  as  we  Central 
Americans  put  it,  Mexico  is  a  continuation  of  Central  America.  I  mean  we 
are  one  and  the  same  people.  We  have  the  same  Indian  races.  We  had  the 
same  conquerors;  we  had  the  same  people  to  make  trouble  for  us;  only  Mexico 
being  larger,  stronger  and  more  developed  in  its  natural  resources  than  we, 
has  been  able  to  develop  its  labor  movement  faster. 

The  church  came  to  build  on  the  ruins  of  what  the  sword  had  done.  The 
Spanish  conqueror  came  to  destroy  our  Indian  civilization;  then  came  the  church 
to.  build  on  the  ruins  of  that  civilization  a  new  one.  The  essence  of  that 
civilization  was  and  is  that  all  servants,  meaning  laborers,  should  obey  their 
masters,  meaning  the  employers,  as  their  gods.  That  was  the  principal  thing 
the  church  did.  This  civilization  the  church  taught  for  so  many  hundreds  of 
years  was  killing  my  people.  After  awhile  both  the  church  and  the  conqueror 
found  that  it  did  not  pay  to  kill  them,  that  it  was  better  to  have  them  as 
servants.  It  is  true  the  church  has  taught  some  religion  of  its  kind.  It  is  also 
true  it  did  not  forget  to  make  good  servants  through  its  teachings.  That  is 
chiefly  what  we  have  had  to  fight. 


—84— 


You  come  to  Mexico  and  find  it  in  a  troubled  state;  imagine  what  it  was 
before.  You  can  find  out  by  going  down  to  Central  America.  Come  down  to 
Nicaragua  and  you  will  find  destruction  and  nothing  developed.  Everyone 
wants  to  grab,  just  as  the  Spanish  have  been  doing  for  centuries,  even  the 
United  States;  and  the  unfortunate  part  is  that  the  United  States  doesn’t  realize 
it.  The  power  of  the  United  States  is  committing  murder  and  the  United  States 
thinks  it  has  its  conscience  clear.  There  is  a  government  and  a  church.  The 
government  has  all  the  departments  a  civilized  country  needs,  apparently,  but 
it  has  no  power.  The  church  is  just  a  political  school.  One  comes  as  a  tourist 
for  a  few  days  and  sees  lovely  places.  You  are  taken  to  a  parochial  school 
and  you  see  the  children  there  learning  their  A-B-C.  But  the  backbone  of  all 
this  education  is  that  there  is  a  master  and  they  are  all  taught  how  to  serve 
those  masters  as  God.  The  poor  are  treated  just  like  stock  and  not  very  fine 
stock  either.  In  Latin  America  you  may  find  very  beautiful  towns,  but  if  you 
want  to  find  out  how  the  people  live  go  out  of  the  town.  Then  you  see  only 
huts.  In  the  schools  of  the  Catholic  church  they  are  not  always  taught  even  to 
read,  but  they  are  taught  the  catechism,  they  are  taught  how  they  should  treat 
the  church,  how  they  should  treat  the  priest,  how  they  should  finally  treat  their 
masters.  Real  trade  unions  were  not  formed  in  Central  America  until  1923.  In 
1923  the  C.  R.  O.  M.  began  their  hard  work  to  start  these  unions  and  to  gather 
information.  It  was  then  that  we  began  to  study  the  problems  of  the  laborers  of 
the  country.  The  conditions  we  were  trying  to  solve  through  the  labor  movement 
were  these.  The  Indian  had  been  robbed  of  all  his  land.  He  was  living  on  the 
outskirts  of  the  town  somewhat  as  a  human  louse,  only  he  was  a  louse  that  could 
be  milked  once  in  awhile  in  filth  and  poverty,  such  filth  as  you  have  never 
seen.  The  women  have  many  children,  one  a  year.  They  do  not  have  real 
houses  or  even  huts;  they  only  have  something  to  cover  the  roof,  so  they 
are  a  little  bit  protected  from  the  storms.  Sometimes  one  of  them  gets  a 
nice  fat  cow  or  a  nice  fat  pig  so  they  will  have  some  milk,  but  about  that 
time  comes  a  government  official  and  he  takes  that  nice  fat  cow  for  someone 
higher  up  in  the  government. 

There  is  plenty  of  work  at  the  plantations  when  gathering  in  the  coffee, 
but  that  season  lasts  only  two  months.  But  that  is  on  the  Atlantic  Coast  of 
Nicaragua  a  great  source  of  wealth  in  bananas.  The  banana  takes  care  of 
producing  itself.  From  one  banana  plant  there  will  be  at  least  twelve  little 
banana  plants.  All  that  is  necessary  is  to  see  that  they  start  growing.  These 
plants  grow  in  very  poor  soil,  swampy  soil.  The  people  who  live  in  this 
part  of  the  country  do  not  live  long.  They  work  hard  gathering  in  these 
crops;  and  they  do  not  live  very  long.  I  have  seen  several  old  men;  but 
that  was  really  a  miracle.  Down  there  they  get  an  average  of  20  centavos  a 
day,  they  do  not  get  enough  to  buy  food.  There  is  one  very  large  fruit 
company  that  handles  the  bananas.  It  is  Cuyomel  Fruit  Company.  It  is 
estimated  they  make  a  net  profit  of  $80,000,000  a  year.  And  for  all  the 
bananas  they  take  out  of  Central  America  and  principally  from  Nicaragua, 
they  leave  only  about  $100,000.  We  went  on  the  strike. 

We  soon  decided  we  could  not  have  labor  unions  unless  we  were  to 
have  political  power.  Of  what  use  were  they  if  we  did  not  gain  anything, 
and  of  what  use  if  the  national  army  will  fire  on  us.  Then  we  organized 
the  Nicaraguan  labor  party,  the  arm  of  the  Nicaraguan  trade  union  move¬ 
ment.  We  have  not  succeeded  yet  because  we  have  not  been  able  to  control 
any  political  movement  nor  the  affairs  of  the  government.  Can  you  imagine 
trade  unions  during  the  Diaz  regime?  They  would  have  had  the  Federal 
Army  firing  on  them,  just  as  they  did  under  Victoriano  Huerta. 

The  conditions  in  Central  America  and  Mexico  are  the  same.  We  have 


—85— 


tried  to  do  what  the  Mexicans  have  done  with  much  success.  Our  difficulty 
in  Central  America  has  been  with  governments  which  have  been  helped  by 
the  American  Marines.  If  we  could  have  sufficient  influence  to  keep  the 
American  marines  in  check,  then  we  should  succeed  as  Mexico  has  succeeded. 


Rural  Social  Work 

MISS  ELENA  TORRES,  experienced  as  a  social  worker  in  rural  Mexico, 
a  member  of  the  staff  of  the  Y.  W.  C.  A.  in  Mexico  City,  spoke  Thursday 
morning,  August  5.  Miss  Caroline  Smith,  introducing  her,  said,  “When  I 
came  to  Mexico  nearly  five  years  ago,  I  wanted  to  know  what  women  were 
doing  in  organized  groups.  One  of  the  first  places  I  was  directed  to  and 
visited  was  a  small  group  with  headquarters  in  a  small  room  near  the  Cathedral. 
There  I  found  Miss  Elena  Torres.  She  did  o  very  fine  piece  of  work  in 
organizing  the  Association  Cooperative  Femenista,  a  small  group  of  very 
intelligent  women.  Following  istudy  in  the  United  States,  she  returned  at 
the  invitation  of  Mr.  Saenz,  the  Assistant  Secretary  of  Education,  to  organize 
six  mission  groups  to  improve  conditions  in  the  rural  districts.  Miss  Torres 
and  Mrs.  Concha  Romero  James  are  the  outstanding  organizers  of  women’s 
groups  for  improving  the  conditions  here  in  Mexico.  I  should  like  to  say  for 
the  Y.  W.  C.  A.  that  we  have  captured  Miss  Torres  from  the  government.  We 
did  not  deliberately  do  it;  she  had  decided  to  sever  her  association  with  the 
government  and  to  join  our  forces.  She  is  going  to  the  United  States  to 
become  acquainted  with  our  plans  and  then  she  is  coming  back  to  Mexico  to 
start  future  Associations  in  Mexico,  which  will  be  in  the  rural  districts  of 
Mexico.  We  shall  probably  have  no  more  city  associations;  this  will  probably 
be  the  only  city  association  or  center.  Hereafter  our  efforts  will  be  con¬ 
centrated  on  the  work  in  the  rural  districts  and  Miss  Torres  will  have  charge 
of  it;  in  this  Association  we  will  develop  a  training  center  for  the  training 
of  secretaries  to  go  out  into  these  rural  districts.  She  is  to  be  our  extension 
secretary. 

Miss  Torres  said: 

I  will  explain  some  of  my  experience  in  rural  Avork.  In  1912  I  was  a 
rural  teacher,  and  I  learned  how  bad  the  situation  of  people  in  the  country  is; 
but  my  opportunity  did  not  come  until  1922.  During  the  last  of  that  year 
I  organized  9,000  breakfasts  for  children;  then  I  received  some  help  from 
government  people.  Dr.  Pruneda,  Rector  of  the  University,  then  in  the  health 
department,  gave  me  a  nurse  who  was  also  a  doctor  in  obstetrics  and  two 
other  workers.  We  went  to  Cuatla,  Morelia.  In  the  beginning  of  my  work,  (I 
put  eight  months  into  this  work),  I  was  in  a  small  village  where  they  had 
never  had  schools.  I  organized  a  mass  meeting  in  the  village  which  had  about 
125  families.  Each  family  gave  $4.50  (pesos)  towards  the  buying  of  material, 
for  the  building  of  the  school.  I  went  to  the  Junta  and  I  told  them  they 
had  to  help  me  so  that  we  could  build  this  school  fast.  Well,  we  had  a  one- 
room  school  in  four  months. 

I  told  these  people  they  should  build  homes  in  which  to  live.  I  proposed 
a  plan  for  the  houses:  one  big  room,  one  small  room,  a  kitchenette,  and  a 
small  corridor.  The  plans  required  only  materials  they  had  in  the  place. 
If  we  use  things  they  do  not  have,  we  shall  not  improve  their  life.  Four 
months  after  the  first  sample  new  home  was  built,  seventeen  homes  had  been 
completed.  I  did  not  take  part  in  all  this,  only  in  the  first  one.  It  was  an 
.example  only  that  they  needed. 


These  people  do  not  have  social  life  in  the  way  we  have.  They  have  no 
organization.  When  they  have  rivers,  then  the  boys  swim;  but  in  everj'thing 
they  d  oit  is  without  organization.  They  do  not  have  good  leaders.  After 
independence,  they  lost  all  of  the  leaders.  They  need  leaders  to  help  the  life 
of  independence.  Then  too  they  have  religious  needs.  The  principal  thing 
for  the  Mexican  people  is  for  them  to  cast  off  the  Catholic  church.  Because 
for  years  and  years  they  have  had  the  priests  and  the  ^church,  they  have 
wanted  only  the  Catholic  church;  but  the  chm'ch  has  lost  the  opportunity  to 
improve  the  situation.  My  grandfather  was  Catholic,  but  I  was  out  of  the 
church  at  sixteen  years  of  age  because  I  did  not  like  confession.  I  never  did 
like  to  speak  about  religion.  Of  course,  religion  ought  to  be  supported. 
I  am  interested  in  helping  Christianity  in  every  church. 

QUESTION:  What  is  done  about  illness  in  the  country?  Do  they  take 
them  to  doctors  and  places  where  they  can  be  treated? 

ANSWER:  They  have  quack  doctors.  They  treat  sometimes  with  herbs. 
They  need  doctors  and  nurses  very  much. 

QUESTION:  In  Cuba,  there  are  two  kinds  of  physicians.  There  are 
the  licensed  physicians,  and  the  medical  students  or  those  who  have  not  yet 
received  their  degrees. 

ANSWER:  Lots  of  them  here  do  not  know  much.  There  are  many 
doctors  here  in  the  cities,  but  few  in  the  country. 

QUESTION:  Is  there  a  tendency  to  return  to  the  teachings  of  Jesus? 

ANSWER:  They  cannot  understand  between  the  teachings  of  Jesus  and 
the  teachings  of  the  church. 


Miss  Concepcion  Perez,  a  Methodist  worker  in  rural  districts  of  Mexico, 
also  spoke,  as  follows: 

I  am  working  in  the  Methodist  church.  I  was  a  teacher  in  the  country, 
so  I  can  tell  you  what  the  conditions  are.  Our  country  people,  the  Indians, 
live  in  very  bad  conditions  in  some  ways.  Not  all  the  people  in  the  country 
live  the  same.  The  people  who  live  on  the  coast  have  adobe  houses,  very  small 
houses,  but  they  have  beds,  chairs  and  tables.  They  haven’t  very  comfortable 
houses,  but  they  live  better  than  the  people  who  live  here  in  the  altitude,  on 
the  mesa.  On  the  mesa  the  people  live  in  very  small  adobe  houses,  with  no 
chairs,  beds,  or  tables.  They  sleep  on  the  floor  on  mats.  Those  mats  are 
also  used  as  tables  for  meals.  Concerning  meals,  they  have  in  the  morning- 
only  a  cup  of  tea  made  of  orange  leaves  boiled  in  water,  and  sometimes  they 
have  nothing.  When  they  go  to  work  in  the  fieMs  they  have  about  nine  or 
ten  o’clock  a  meal  of  tortillas,  cakes  made  of  ground  corn,  frijoles  (beans) 
and  chili  sauce.  At  five  or  six  o’clock  in  the  evening  they  have  the  principal 
meal  with  chili.  Very  seldom  do  they  have  any  meat,  but  chili  and  frijoles 
many  times,  that  is,  here  in  the  mesa,  the  cold  country.  In  the  hot  country 
they  have  better  meals.  They  have  meat  and  rice  and  other  things  to  eat. 

When  the  Protes'tant  churches  went  to  work  here,  the  principal  point  was 
to  change  the  conditions  of  living  of  these  poor  people,  all  their  houses  and 
meals  and  everything.  We  realized  that  until  we  did  that  we  could  do  nothing. 
The  principal  point  is  to  reach  these  people  in  the  country  places  and  change 
their  lives.  If  they  can  be  changed,  then  the  country  can  be  changed. 

What  about  the  religious  conditions?  They  believe  in  the  saints.  They 
are  doing  nothing  else  all  the  time  but  thinking  about  the  priests  and  the 
saints.  The  priests  have  entire  control  over  them.  You  can  see  them  go  to 
work  every  day  with  their  suits  of  clothing  in  rags,  but  keeping  pennies  to 
buy  candles  to  light  in  the  churches.  They  sell  things  and  never  use  this 
money  to  make  their  homes  better  but  use  it  for  the  church.  They  go  a  long 


—87— 


way,  twenty  leagues,  walking  or  on  donkeys  and  giye  the  money  to  the  church. 
That  is  the  thing  the  Catholic  Church  is  doing. 

If  you  go  to  the  country  places,  there  is  no  social  life.  We  have  tried 
in  our  little  churches,  wherever  we  could,  to  make  fiestas  and  picnics  and  to 
have  little  social  entertainments,  to  teach  them  how  to  be  happy  and  jolly. 
They  do  not  know  how  to  live.  The  Indians  almost  do  not  know  how  to  laugh. 
In  the  hot  country  around  Veracruz  they  are  happier.  They  know  how  to 
play  and  dance  and  sing. 

The  condition  of  the  women  is  very  bad.  The  women  work  very  hard. 
They  grind  corn  in  the  morning.  They  do  the  house  work  all  the  time. 
They  go  to  the  mills  to  work  and  many  times  they  go  to  the  fields  to  help  the 
husband.  They  have  no  social  life.  Many  of  them  do  not  know  how  to  take 
care  of  the  babies,  how  to  feed  them,  how  to  take  care  of  them  when  they 
are  sick.  One  of  the  principal  tasks  then  is  to  teach  them  to  be  happy, 
how  to  raise  their  babies,  and  how  to  have  real  homes.  We  are  training  girls  in 
cooking,  in  taking  care  of  babies,  and  in  taking  care  of  themselves. 

The  government  is  doing  something.  The  Protestant  churches  are  not  the 
only  ones  doing  something.  General  Calles  has  thought  about  the  Indians. 
The  government  is  making  a  campaign  for  these  Indians.  There  are  some 
schools  for  them,  where  they  are  teaching  to  speak  Spanish,  how  to  farm  and 
how  to  take  care  of  themselves.  Each  one  has  to  learn  a  special  kind  of  work, 
one  a  carpenter,  one  a  farmer,  etc.  In  three  months  they  can  speak  Spanish. 
Games  of  many  kinds  are  taught  as  well  as  work.  They  have  responded  very 
well.  The  government  cannot  teach  these  boys  to  be  good.  The  churches 
must  teach  them  to  think  right  and  to  do  right.  Many  erf  these  boys  have  no 
religion,  not  even  the  Catholic.  The  government  is  doing  fine  social  work, 
giving  entertainments,  teaching  how  to  play,  how  to  take  care  of  babies  and 
all  that. 

QUESTION:  How  do  the  Indians  take  to  athletics? 

ANSWER:  They  respond  very  well.  The  great  trouble  is  that  they  have 
no  leaders. 

QUESTION:  What  do  these  people  do  about  farming,  about  raising 

things  for  themselves  and  for  market? 

ANSWER:  The  trouble  is  we  have  not  large  enough  farms.  They  all 
need  larger  farms.  With  the  little  land  they  have,  they  raise  corn  and  beans, 
but  they  very  seldom  have  any  surplus  above  their  own  needs. 

QUESTION:  What  do  the  priests  do  with  the  money  they  collect?  Do 
they  use  it  for  the  Indians? 

ANSWER:  No,  they  never  do;  they  send  it  to  Rome. 

QUESTION:  We  have  been  told  that  even  if  the  people  do  have  land, 
they  do  not  have  the  money  to  plant  the  land. 

ANSWER:  We  have  an  office  in  Mexico  City  where  they  can  get  the 
implements. 

QUESTION:  Are  any  of  the  Indians  well-to-do? 

ANSWER:  Some  of  them;  but  only  a  few, 

QUESTION:  How  large  are  the  farms  they  are  giving  to  the  Indians? 

ANSWER:  Five  acres  for  a  family  of  five. 

QUESTION:  These  traveling  missionaries,  what  about  they? 

ANSWER:  There  were  so  many  calls  to  the  government  for  help  that 
they  have  been  sending  out  these  missionaries.  They  have  now  sent  out 
sixty  traveling  missionaries.  The  trouble  with  the  country  people  is  that 
they  have  no  one  to  lead  them,  no  one  to  show  them  how  to  go  to  the 
governmental  offices  and  get  the  things  they  need.  They  need  someone  to 


—88— 


show  them.  One  hope  of  the  country  is  the  government ’^'schools.  There  are 
many  who  cannot  read  and  write.  •  -  ' 

QUESTION:  Do  you  travel  around  in" the  country  from  place  to  place, 
or  are  there  little  churches  in  most  of  the^e  villages?' 

ANSWER:  Yes,  in  most. 

QUESTION:  In  view  of  your  statement  that  there  is  no  social  life,  do  not 
the  boys  and  girls  have  courtship? 

ANSWER:  Yes,  they  marry  with  the  friends  of  the  family;  they  meet  in 
the  homes  but  they  have  no  social  life. 

QUESTION:  Don’t  they  go  to  the  market  places  and  there  meet  each 
other? 

ANSWER:  Yes,  but  that  is  not  social  life;  there  they  have  to  work  to 
sell.  Of  course,  they  have  the  custom  of  a  marriage  feast.  In  Xochimilco  the 
marriage  feast  lasts  fifteen  days  and  they  make' a  big  affairj- but  not  every  day 
do  they  get  married.  When  a  baby  is  bom  and  baptized,  they  have  another 
feast.  When  anybody  dies,  they  have  another  feast,  that  is,  they  get  together 
and  drink.  But  that  is  not  social  life. 

QUESTION:  This  social  life  at  marriages  and  funerals,  is  it  elevating  or 
degrading? 

ANSWER:  It  does  not  help  them. 

QUESTION:  Do  they  raise  chickens  and' turkeys?  Do  they  eat  them? 

ANSWER:  Yes,  many  of  them.  No,  they  do  not  eat  them.  They  take 
them  to  market  to  sell,  except  when  there  is  a  special  feast,  such  as  at 
marriage.  They  take  them  to  market  to”  get  the  money  for  the  candles  which 
they  take  to  the  church  and  light.  ‘  - 

QUESTION:  Don’t  they  have  com's  and  drink  milk? 

ANSWER:  Yes,  sometimes,  but-if  they  have  a  cow  they  sell  the  milk  and 
save  the  money,  as  I  have  told  you. 

QUESTION:  Don’t  they  give  milk  to’ the  children? 

ANSWER:  No,  not  very  much.^  ’  ' 

QUESTION:  Where  do  they  find  someoTie'  to  buy  the  milk,  if  they  are 
all  so  poor?  •*  '  ’ 

ANSWER:  Even  in  the  small  towns  there  are  always  some  people  who 
have  little  stores  or  do  some  business  and  they  have  money,  so  they  buy  the  milk. 


Our  Mexican  Pilgrimage 

fc.lBy  Robert ■^S.  Holmes  •  r a 


In  an  old  and  musty  Pullman 
Of  a  quite  decadent  brand, 
Taylor  led  our  host  of  pilgrims 
To  explore  an  alien  land. 
Pilgrims  famed  for  erudition 
Representing  age  and  youth 
Sweltered  on  the  way  together, 
Zealots  in  the  search  for  truth. 


— S9— 


Armed  we  were  with  vised  papers 
Stamped  with  high  official  sign; 
Knowing  that  our  fame  precedes  us 
Gaily  we  approach  the  line. 

Show  our  scars  of  vaccination 

Leave  the  rest  to  Guide  Book  Joe, 
But  the  Mexicans  undaunted 

Wave  their  hands  in  answer,  No. 

Back  we  go  across  the  border 
For  a  cause  not  understood. 

Rumor  says  we  are  deported 

And  some  members  are  too  good. 

And  they  feign  would  ban  the  preachers. 
For  they  made  our  curates  swear. 
They’d  not  practice  their  religion 
If  they’d  let  them  enter  there. 

To  the  land  of  Toltec  culture. 

To  the  land  of  Mexico. 

Rolled  our  dusty  group  of  students 
Who  would  hear  and  see  and  know. 

We  had  meetings  in  the  morning 
And  some  interviews  at  night. 

And  we  learned  from  native  leaders 
What  was  wrong  and  who  are  right. 

Now  our  group  was  open  minded 
Not  a  person  would  take  sides 
Twixt  the  masses  and  the  classes, 

’Till  we  knew  where  truth  abides. 

So  we’ve  gathered  information 
With  a  journalistic  skill. 

And  both  capital  and  labor 
Are  assured  of  our  good  will. 

So  it’s  home  again  tomorrow 
For  authorities  are  we 
And  will  write  for  home  town  papers. 
Prophesying  things  to  be 
We  have  spent  almost  a  fortnight. 

In  the  state  of  Mexico, 

And  our  heads  are  filled  with  knowledge 
Much  of  which  may  not  be  so. 


—90 


CONTENTS 


Preface  _  3 

The  Views  of  President  Calles _  5 

The  Historic  Background  of  Mexico _  9 

Mexican  Protestant  Views _ —13 

Views  of  the  Roman  Catholic  Hierarchy _ 29 

The  Independent  Catholic  Church _ 32 

Business  Conditions  _ 35 

The  Program  of  Education _ 39 

The  Labor  Movement _ _ _ 45 

The  Oil  Laws _ 48 

The  Religious  Problem _ 52 

Agriculture _ 57 

C.  R.  O.  M _ 64 

The  Mexican  Labor  Movement _ 68 

Protestant  Missionaries _ 71 

An  Indian;  School _ 74 

Important  Documents  _ 75 

Pro-Calles  Parade  Legends _ 83 

Central  American  Conditions _ ^ _ 84 

Rural  Social  Work _ 86 

Our  Mexican  Pilgrimage _ 89 


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